To prevent further spread of the coronavirus, we should require everyone to get fully vaccinated (including a possible third dose) — unless exempted by a sincerely held religious belief or medical condition. We should write to our legislators and executives at all levels of government.
Alvin Blake
Fayetteville, Ga.
Make me.
I will like to, but even I have to yield to the benefit of others.
Maybe if the government would outlaw all vaccines and demand no one get the covid shot under penalty of law?
In the OT one man said all of Israel has turned from God. God said not all. Some are still mine. If you believe we are in the in the days the same is true. But in our case the Bible promises the rapture. So we still have a duty to live the best life possible.
Biden’s fiat requiring Government Employees and the employees of company’s holding contracts with the federal government be vaccinated for Covid or be fired is based on the need to protect the public. This edict has “trumped” one’s own right to autonomy over medical decisions for their own body in the name of public safety. Vaccination don’t come without risk, and especially in younger age groups as there is significant increases in risk for myocarditis and pericarditis, including several deaths. Despite the fact studies have shown that naturally acquired immunity to Covid through prior infection, to be comparable to immunity received from vaccination. Those with natural acquired immunity are still being required to be vaccinated or be fired.
Biden in April deemed violent crime to be a public health epidemic. Interestingly, there have been numerous studies that have shown people who attend church regularly are far less likely to commit violent crimes through the weekly “immunization of their soul” by worship at a church or synagogue. I must wonder how many of those demanding mandates would support a presidential mandate to attend church services weekly or be fired in the name of public safety? BTW, this type of vaccination hasn’t been shown increase one’s risk of myocarditis either.
ToSir: Your data is incorrect, or the source of your data is lying to you. Naturally-acquired immunity is up to 27x MORE protective against Covid than vaccinations. The data is from an Israeli study – which is much more objective and much less politicized than anything I’ve found in the USA. And Israel is one of the most-vaxxed countries in the world. This study compared natural immunity patients with vaccine-induced immunity patients.
Here’s the excerpt:
“The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.”
This journal is published by the AAAS – The American Association for the Advancement of Science. One of the most reputable and longest-established scientific associations in the USA.
Natural immunity is up to 27x more protective than the jab.
Let me repeat: Natural Immunity, from surviving Covid, is up to 27x MORE protective, than the covid vaccines.
PS – Obesity is also one of the largest indicators of inability to overcome a Covid infection. But how dare we talk about Covid as being a disease that preys upon the fat and obese in our society. Can we get a vaccine for that?
wing; A friend of mine will lose his job on Dec 8th if he doesn’t get vaccinated because of Biden’s fiat. He and his family recovered from covid and he opened his home to others with covid to give them a place to isolate safely away from their families. He has a heart condition and doesn’t want to risk the vaccine since he already has immunity. The fact that Biden’s executive order mandate doesn’t recognize natural immunity shows it’s political and not based on science.
Get as many jabs as you would like, it’s none of your business what anybody else injects into their bodies. 
CLOWN
This makes no sense. The “vaccines” don’t actually appear to prevent anyone from getting infected or passing on the virus (which means they don’t meet the definition of a vaccine, just BTW). They do, however, appear to serve as therapeutics – if infected you become less ill – this is a significant benefit to the person who was “vaccinated”, just so you know I’m not ignoring that. And there is some evidence that people who have been “vaccinated” are more likely to spread the virus.
Note, also, that natural immunity (those who have had the virus and recovered) is much more powerful than the “vaccines” – so why no exemption for them?
If you are vaccinated and believe the vaccine works, why are you trying to force it on other people? Aren’t you protected? Do you believe your sunscreen won’t work if the other guy doesn’t also use sunscreen?
“And there is some evidence that people who have been “vaccinated” are more likely to spread the virus.”
Please source your evidence that vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus. Facebook doesn’t count.
“If you are vaccinated and believe the vaccine works, why are you trying to force it on other people? Aren’t you protected? Do you believe your sunscreen won’t work if the other guy doesn’t also use sunscreen?”
Oh I don’t know, maybe b/c I don’t want my grandparents to die b/c some unvaccinated mouth-breather came in contact with them at the store/doctor’s office/wherever.
Also, I’m not sure if you are aware, but sunburns aren’t contagious.
“Brief History and Characterization of Enhanced Respiratory Syncytial Virus Disease” – American Society of Microbiology, 2016. journals[dot]asm[asm]org/doi/10.1128/CVI.00609-15
“Immunization with inactivated Middle East Respiratory Syndrome coronavirus vaccine leads to lung immunopathology on challenge with live virus” – Journal of Human Vaccines and Immunotheraputics, 2016.
doi[dot]org/10.1080/21645515.2016.1177688
“Coronavirus vaccine-associated lung immunopathology-what is the significance?” – Elsevier, 2020. www[dot]ncbi[dot]nlm[dot]nih[dot]gov/pmc/articles/PMC7318931/
There are dozens of papers like this stretching back to the early 2000’s (and likely more which weren’t digitized because they predate the Internet). It was first discovered in the 1960’s when testing vaccines against Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV). 80% of the test subjects had to be hospitalized for severe pneumonia, 2 died. Since then, VAERD has been a reporting requirement for all vaccines and other biologics intended for treatment of respiratory viruses. It’s also what prevented early development through conventional means of a vaccine against SARS and MERS. The Moderna mRNA-1273 (now called SpikeVax) is the only vaccine which did not demonstrate VAERD in phase III trials. VAERD is specifically listed as a side effect for the Pfizer vaccine. VAERD is why none of these vaccines are approved for children under 16.
These references in no way support the claim made by Esteban that vaccinated persons spread the virus at a higher rate than the unvaccinated. It’s really not even the same subject matter, but let’s explore.
Your sources reference studies done on enhance respiratory diseases discovered as a result of vaccination practices/experimentation done in the 60’s on infants. All the studies you link simply warn that during vaccine development immunologists must be aware that VAERD is a risk factor that must be accounted for since it was identified as a possible outcome 60 years ago in a different virus (RSV).
I do appreciate the history lesson (from source #1) and insight into how vaccines are developed (from sources #2 & #3). In fact, your sources make me even more confident that the covid vaccines are safe and effective due to the rigorous testing and research required to develop.
“Show me proof”
[proof appears]
“Listen to how instead of defending my original assertion, I argue about something else.”
I asked for proof that vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus.
You provided no such proof. Instead, you provided 3 articles about a very specific risk factor to be aware of when vaccines are being developed. A risk factor that is and has been taken into account.
I also did not assert anything in my original comment. I just asked for the source that vaccinated people are more likely spread the virus at a higher rate than unvaccinated. I will wait.
So why do you think the vaccine is being pushed? Why did Trump facilitate in “fast-tracking” the development of the vaccine? And now, why is this current administration telling everyone to get vaccinated? I mean, why do they bother?
If you can truthfully answer the questions above, I’ll be more than glad to address your other concerns.
Dawn – Money. Plain and simple. Follow the money. That’s why the vaccine is getting pushed so hard. I’m not saying to not get the bad if you’re at risk. I am saying that Big Pharma is getting rich and fat off this virus and they’re lining the pockets of the FDA and NIH to do it. Politicians either are on the take, or they are just trusting blindly without a healthy dose of critical thinking and skepticism. Now they’re suggesting endless boosters? When is the last time you had a booster shot for chicken pox, polio, MMR, etc?
Why would you get a booster for something that is essentially non-existent? Is there a pandemic of chicken pox, polio, MMR, etc? When’s the last time you’ve seen someone with Polio? Were they vaccinated? Was the government and big pharma only interested in money when they developed those vaccines for the diseases you speak of? Why don’t you see those diseases on a wide-spread scale? Do you know what Shingles is and what it is derived from? Yeah, I got the Shingles vaccine a couple of years ago because my spouse came down with it and I saw the suffering that it caused.
Your critical thinking and skepticism is anything BUT healthy. You people have gone overboard with skepticism. You desperately find anyone that confirms what you already believe to be true – most all with no credibility or those that bend the truth to keep you on the hook. That’s called gang mentality.
It isn’t money. Bottom line, the COVID vaccine – ALL vaccines are developed to HELP save lives. They are developed with the intention to save lives, reduce the effects of the disease (medically, financially, etc.) and help people from suffering. The intention of vaccines is to curb the number of people who are getting infected and significantly reduce the prevalence of the disease. When people that are recommended to receive the shot refuse to do so, the virus continues on to its next host and it also mutates. Yes, those that are COVID vaccinated can spread the virus, but if the person knows this, they can isolate and stop the spread. As well, those that are vaccinated (and happen to have a break-through case) have a reduced effect on our hospitals, medical workers, our infrastructure, and most importantly, it doesn’t effect their own medical well-being as severely.
When those that are recommended to get the vaccine, refuse to do so, they are lengthening the duration of the pandemic and they are affecting the lives of others – and that is completely un-American.
If MMR / Chicken Pox are non-existent…..then why are we still jabbing kids with vaccines for them??? Hmmmmm…..
What IS un-American is forcing an unproven shot that’s got little testing, on millions of people who don’t want it.
I’ve had Covid. I’ve got natural immunity. Why in the world would I want to get a jab when my chances of contracting Covid again are LOWER with natural immunity, than they are from taking a drug that’s approved for emergency use with limited testing? No thank you. You’re welcome to take the jab and there’s no condemnation from ANYONE if you do. But the issue is forcing it on others.
And – if you REALLY cared about an epidemic that’s killing more people every day – let’s do something about obesity. It’s 100% preventable and decreasing obesity would save WAY more lives than Covid has taken. If you had an experimental jab that would make people thinner and you forced them to take it – how do you think that would go over?
I said “essentially non-existent”. That means that it’s still out there, but we are controlling it among the population of those that are vaccinated.
I’d like to see your data concerning natural immunity. How bad did you have it? Did you skate by with little side effects or were you on your death bed? That makes a huge difference with how immune you are. Vaccines at least have a measured dose. How do we know you had COVID? I’m sure you legitimately had it, but how do I know other than taking your word for it?
Your word “experimental” is subjective and vague. Your skepticism about everything worrisome. You have trust issues. If the government wanted to kill off its citizens, there’s a lot of other ways it could do it – but why would they? Why would they want to kill off the very people that vote for them. Your thoughts are illogical and silly.
Here’s the data from the study. PS – it’s not “my” data……
“The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.”
9 new billionaires in Big Pharma alone thanks to the vaccines, plus 25 new multi-millionaires thanks to very well timed stock investments and shorts.
www[dot]cnn[dot]com/2021/05/21/business/covid-vaccine-billionaires/index.html
But it’s not just money. Money is merely currency. Power is what really counts. Look at how many politicians are now exercising power well beyond that which they were constitutionally or statutorily granted. Do you think Trump could have forced GM to make ventilators that we now know we never needed without this crisis? Do you think Cuomo could have forced our elderly citizens to be jailed without trial in nursing homes where thousands died in NY State? Do you think that if a US President claimed the autocratic power to force every citizen to undertake a medical procedure against their wishes at any other time, that they wouldn’t have been removed from office with gusto?
Inject a little fear into society, and watch people in power profit in any way possible.
“Inject a little fear into society, and watch people in power profit in any way possible.”
And those that decided that the fear wasn’t warranted end up dying. Pick your poison.
That was their choice. I’d rather die of a bad choice I willingly made, then die because my government ordered it.
And the fear is not justified. The incidence of death from COVID19 in the US is 600 per 100,000 or just 0.06%. The Case Fatality Rate is just 1.61%, and the estimated total fatality rate is just 0.74%. You’re comparing COVID to diseases which had case fatality rates ranging from 15% (polio) to 30% (smallpox). And by the way… nobody was forced to be vaccinated, healthy people weren’t imprisoned in their homes, businesses weren’t shut down… we dealt with those actual public health emergencies without becoming a totalitarian dictatorship. (And also, those vaccines spent decades in development before being approved, vs months in development for the COVID vaccines.)
If you had a 2% chance of pooping your pants in public, you still wouldn’t wear a diaper all the time. I would hope.
And those numbers are pre-vaccine or post? That’s a big determining factor in all this. How long was polio a problem before a vaccine was developed? It was a long, long time. That’s what makes your numbers disingenuous. We went into lockdowns and most wore their masked and social distanced. The vaccine was developed rather quickly and shots into arms. That’s a huge difference. And why did it happen that way? Why was there a pandemic guidebook (that Trump threw in the trash)? Because we have already gone through some of these hard times. We’ve already developed medical processes and better know what to do when these things happen. We learn more every time we have to deal with it – well, some learn… others falter.
Nobody was forced to get the Polio vaccine because people saw the devastation with their own eyes and they had a mentality of doing their part for the benefit of others. No one sees the COVID devastation currently save for those that have had a loved one perish. Regular people can’t get into the COVID floors or wings of hospitals. It isn’t pretty and that’s what people should be seeing. As well, people now seem to only care about themselves.
You’re petrified of “totalitarian dictatorship” but, essentially begged for it from Trump. You confuse “doing the right thing as a member of a civilized society” with “totalitarian dictatorship.” My question is, when did you people become so selfish – or was it always there?
“And those numbers are pre-vaccine or post?”
Cumulative.
“That’s a big determining factor in all this.”
If you believe that, then you should know that the CFR dropped from 4.6% at the start of the pandemic to 1.72% before any vaccines were available at all.
“How long was polio a problem before a vaccine was developed?”
Polio wasn’t a problem until 1900, despite existing for at least 5,000 years. The first attempt at a vaccine begin in 1932. A safe and effective wasn’t invented until 1952.
“Nobody was forced to get the Polio vaccine because people saw the devastation with their own eyes and they had a mentality of doing their part for the benefit of others.”
Well that’s a bold faced lie, and not even a particularly good one. The widespread knowledge of the disastrous Kollmer and Brody vaccines in the 30’s and 40’s scared people away. Doctors refused to even administer vaccines for polio. When the Salk vaccine was introduced in 1952, a concerted public information campaign had to be mounted at great expense (including enlisting Hollywood). Within two years, the US Surgeon General ordered a halt to vaccination programs after 11 children died and hundreds of children were paralyzed by vaccine-induced polio. By then, the number of polio cases had already been rapidly declining for 20 years. Vaccination rates only topped above 90% in the 1970’s after polio was bundled with with vaccines for measles, mumps, and rubella in a single shot. It took two generations before Americans accepted the polio vaccine.
The reason nobody was forced to get the polio vaccine is because nobody in the US government ever seriously believed that they had the power to do so. The Supreme Court ruling of Jacobson v Mass ruled that forced vaccination was a violation of a persons rights as protected by the 14th Amendment. It established that a person may be subject to some restraints, but only to the extend that they’re reasonable and under the pressure of “great dangers” to the public. In this case, the only power that was upheld was the power of a government to fine a person for not getting a vaccine. The court did not rule that a person could be forced to accept the shot, much less be quarantined or denied access to society.
“You’re petrified of “totalitarian dictatorship””
The fact that you’re not speaks volumes. I no longer wonder how people could have supported a dictator who characterizes a minority group as a threat to the health and welfare of a nation to the degree that they turn an eye to mass murder. I’ve been arguing with them on the internet for months. I won’t be surprised one bit when the camps appear in the US as they have in Australia, and people like you support it.
No lies over here PT. People could see with their own eyes the devastating effect of Polio – that is not a lie.
You give disingenuous numbers when the length of time to get the vaccine developed and in arms was drastically different. That’s not a lie either.
PTCitizen – fear mongering is thy name. No one is laughing with you – they’re laughing at you.
You can look up the dates on Wikipedia for yourself.
You can go down to the museum at Warm Springs and learn about opposition to the polio vaccine and the effort to build a cure.
You won’t, because the narrative that makes you smug and comfortable has to be protected. Between the two of us, I’m not the one living in fear.
PT again, you’re not making sense and you’re arguing a point that doesn’t help your cause.
The fact is – the Polio vaccine was a success. No matter when they got it right. No matter when American citizens decided to take it – they did get the vaccine and that vaccine was and still is a success. What we’re talking about is your disingenuous number comparisons between Polio and COVID. You admit it took years for a vaccine to be developed and developed correctly. You tell me that people early on did not want the vaccine because of its potential dangers. If it took years for shots to get into arms safely with Polio – that’s the reason their is such a disparity with the numbers between Polio and COVID. We’ve come a long way since the early days of the Polio vaccine. How many people have the COVID vaccine now? 190 million – close to 58% of the country have it. Are those 190 million dying off? Are their significant side effects from this vaccine? No. No there is not.
I keep laughing at you, because you actually are the one living in fear. Fear of totalitarian dictatorship. Fear of the vaccine. Fear of the government. I don’t fear any of that. I willingly got the vaccine. I don’t make up wild stories about “what ifs”. I don’t freak about the government or the big bad boogeyman. You’re constantly making up stories. Why? – I do not know.
Alvin – you should do some research on the vaccines and on the amount of breakthrough cases. Don’t trust the US research…..use the Israeli data, it’s much less politicized. Basically – those who have natural immunity (who’ve already had & recovered from the Chinese Coronavius) have higher protection than those with the vaccine only. If you trust the NIH and the FDC for all your data – you better do the research yourself. Now it’s coming out that the CCV actually WAS a result of the NIH funding “gain of function” research – this is something that Fauci, Collins, and other health bureaucrats swore under oath was not happening. Bottom line: You cannot trust Fauci, the FDC, and the NIH – they’re lying about important issues and they’re being paid off by big Pharma.
Nope, you cannot trust certain news sources or Wing-T for that matter, for their shared opinions on SARS-CoV-2 and associated scientific / research information.
Haha Doon. You’re a lemming who cannot critically think for yourself. That’s sad. I’m not saying to trust me – I’m saying you better not take whatever Fauci and the FDA and NIH say as 100% truth – that little weasel has been lying all along and he’s been wrong on the majority of what he’s said. But you go right ahead and just be a good little soldier and believe whatever they want to tell you.
The NIH can’t even agree with itself. After NIH Director Collins testified before Congress that they were not funding gain of function research at the Wuhan CDC lab, the NIH released a two page press release on October 20th admitting that in fact that through the EcoHealth Alliance, the Wuhan lab had used funds from NIH grant AL110964 to perform gain-of-function research in violation of the grants terms. Fauci had personal knowledge that the Wuhan lab was receiving US funds through the EcoHealth alliance but testified earlier this year to the opposite.
People who still put their trust in the government after this past 22 months are amazing. The amount of conflicting and contradictory information they have to ignore to believe what they believe approaches almost cult-like levels of brainwashing. Even in this post, you have people who still think that the unvaccinated need to take the vaccine to protect the vaccinated against the disease that the vaccine is supposed to prevent the unvaccinated from giving to the vaccinated.
“Even in this post, you have people who still think that the unvaccinated need to take the vaccine to protect the vaccinated against the disease that the vaccine is supposed to prevent the unvaccinated from giving to the vaccinated.”
Your mumbo-jumbo does not go unnoticed. You know the reasons why people should get vaccinated, but you’re like a little kid – if someone tells you that you need to do something – you refuse.
Poor poor Dawn…….he/she (sorry, not going to use any of the “new” pronouns that Dawn probably prefers) he/she cannot follow the logic of PTC’s argument.
It’s simple Dawn – if you’re vaccinated and the vaccines work….then go on and live your happy life. Why should my lack of taking a vaccine worry you? You’ve taken it and you can take 3 or 4 boosters a year if you want to be protected beyond your wildest dreams. Go right ahead. If I’m sick with Covid and you’re vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about.
You’re prolonging the viruses reign and you’re allowing it to mutate into other forms.
Obviously though, you don’t care. You seem to love pandemics and their ill effects. Sad.
C’mon winger, you’ve been spouting off with incorrect and misleading statements since the Covid-19 pandemic began to affect our area (Mar ’20), starting with mask wearing. At least PTCit does some shared homework before his fumbling of the info that he’s citing. Having spent a lengthy career within biosciences, I find it somewhat enlightening to read what the local public thinks and says here, but then at times the needle does shift to a disturbing level.
“Sincerely held” religious belief? Would love to hear a definition of that.
I would love to know why only religious belief (sincere or otherwise) should qualify. People are capable of sincere beliefs without a religious foundation. How long before religion is no longer an acceptable basis for people to exercise bodily autonomy? How long before Scientism replaces Christianity as the basis for belief?
Since there are 1.7 billion Christians worldwide, I would expect that there will be a very long wait. Thankfully.
PTC – Christianity has already been replaced. Liberalism is the godless religion that leftists in this country have chosen to worship.
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