Require Covid vaccinations

“Show me proof”

[proof appears]

“Listen to how instead of defending my original assertion, I argue about something else.”

I asked for proof that vaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus.

You provided no such proof. Instead, you provided 3 articles about a very specific risk factor to be aware of when vaccines are being developed. A risk factor that is and has been taken into account.

I also did not assert anything in my original comment. I just asked for the source that vaccinated people are more likely spread the virus at a higher rate than unvaccinated. I will wait.

If MMR / Chicken Pox are non-existent…..then why are we still jabbing kids with vaccines for them??? Hmmmmm…..

What IS un-American is forcing an unproven shot that’s got little testing, on millions of people who don’t want it.

I’ve had Covid. I’ve got natural immunity. Why in the world would I want to get a jab when my chances of contracting Covid again are LOWER with natural immunity, than they are from taking a drug that’s approved for emergency use with limited testing? No thank you. You’re welcome to take the jab and there’s no condemnation from ANYONE if you do. But the issue is forcing it on others.

And – if you REALLY cared about an epidemic that’s killing more people every day – let’s do something about obesity. It’s 100% preventable and decreasing obesity would save WAY more lives than Covid has taken. If you had an experimental jab that would make people thinner and you forced them to take it – how do you think that would go over?

I said “essentially non-existent”. That means that it’s still out there, but we are controlling it among the population of those that are vaccinated.

I’d like to see your data concerning natural immunity. How bad did you have it? Did you skate by with little side effects or were you on your death bed? That makes a huge difference with how immune you are. Vaccines at least have a measured dose. How do we know you had COVID? I’m sure you legitimately had it, but how do I know other than taking your word for it?

Your word “experimental” is subjective and vague. Your skepticism about everything worrisome. You have trust issues. If the government wanted to kill off its citizens, there’s a lot of other ways it could do it – but why would they? Why would they want to kill off the very people that vote for them. Your thoughts are illogical and silly.

Here’s the data from the study. PS – it’s not “my” data……

“The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.”

https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

“Inject a little fear into society, and watch people in power profit in any way possible.”

And those that decided that the fear wasn’t warranted end up dying. Pick your poison.

That was their choice. I’d rather die of a bad choice I willingly made, then die because my government ordered it.

And the fear is not justified. The incidence of death from COVID19 in the US is 600 per 100,000 or just 0.06%. The Case Fatality Rate is just 1.61%, and the estimated total fatality rate is just 0.74%. You’re comparing COVID to diseases which had case fatality rates ranging from 15% (polio) to 30% (smallpox). And by the way… nobody was forced to be vaccinated, healthy people weren’t imprisoned in their homes, businesses weren’t shut down… we dealt with those actual public health emergencies without becoming a totalitarian dictatorship. (And also, those vaccines spent decades in development before being approved, vs months in development for the COVID vaccines.)

If you had a 2% chance of pooping your pants in public, you still wouldn’t wear a diaper all the time. I would hope.

And those numbers are pre-vaccine or post? That’s a big determining factor in all this. How long was polio a problem before a vaccine was developed? It was a long, long time. That’s what makes your numbers disingenuous. We went into lockdowns and most wore their masked and social distanced. The vaccine was developed rather quickly and shots into arms. That’s a huge difference. And why did it happen that way? Why was there a pandemic guidebook (that Trump threw in the trash)? Because we have already gone through some of these hard times. We’ve already developed medical processes and better know what to do when these things happen. We learn more every time we have to deal with it – well, some learn… others falter.

Nobody was forced to get the Polio vaccine because people saw the devastation with their own eyes and they had a mentality of doing their part for the benefit of others. No one sees the COVID devastation currently save for those that have had a loved one perish. Regular people can’t get into the COVID floors or wings of hospitals. It isn’t pretty and that’s what people should be seeing. As well, people now seem to only care about themselves.

You’re petrified of “totalitarian dictatorship” but, essentially begged for it from Trump. You confuse “doing the right thing as a member of a civilized society” with “totalitarian dictatorship.” My question is, when did you people become so selfish – or was it always there?

“And those numbers are pre-vaccine or post?”

Cumulative.

“That’s a big determining factor in all this.”

If you believe that, then you should know that the CFR dropped from 4.6% at the start of the pandemic to 1.72% before any vaccines were available at all.

“How long was polio a problem before a vaccine was developed?”

Polio wasn’t a problem until 1900, despite existing for at least 5,000 years. The first attempt at a vaccine begin in 1932. A safe and effective wasn’t invented until 1952.

“Nobody was forced to get the Polio vaccine because people saw the devastation with their own eyes and they had a mentality of doing their part for the benefit of others.”

Well that’s a bold faced lie, and not even a particularly good one. The widespread knowledge of the disastrous Kollmer and Brody vaccines in the 30’s and 40’s scared people away. Doctors refused to even administer vaccines for polio. When the Salk vaccine was introduced in 1952, a concerted public information campaign had to be mounted at great expense (including enlisting Hollywood). Within two years, the US Surgeon General ordered a halt to vaccination programs after 11 children died and hundreds of children were paralyzed by vaccine-induced polio. By then, the number of polio cases had already been rapidly declining for 20 years. Vaccination rates only topped above 90% in the 1970’s after polio was bundled with with vaccines for measles, mumps, and rubella in a single shot. It took two generations before Americans accepted the polio vaccine.

The reason nobody was forced to get the polio vaccine is because nobody in the US government ever seriously believed that they had the power to do so. The Supreme Court ruling of Jacobson v Mass ruled that forced vaccination was a violation of a persons rights as protected by the 14th Amendment. It established that a person may be subject to some restraints, but only to the extend that they’re reasonable and under the pressure of “great dangers” to the public. In this case, the only power that was upheld was the power of a government to fine a person for not getting a vaccine. The court did not rule that a person could be forced to accept the shot, much less be quarantined or denied access to society.

“You’re petrified of “totalitarian dictatorship””

The fact that you’re not speaks volumes. I no longer wonder how people could have supported a dictator who characterizes a minority group as a threat to the health and welfare of a nation to the degree that they turn an eye to mass murder. I’ve been arguing with them on the internet for months. I won’t be surprised one bit when the camps appear in the US as they have in Australia, and people like you support it.

No lies over here PT. People could see with their own eyes the devastating effect of Polio – that is not a lie.

You give disingenuous numbers when the length of time to get the vaccine developed and in arms was drastically different. That’s not a lie either.

PTCitizen – fear mongering is thy name. No one is laughing with you – they’re laughing at you.

You can look up the dates on Wikipedia for yourself.

You can go down to the museum at Warm Springs and learn about opposition to the polio vaccine and the effort to build a cure.

You won’t, because the narrative that makes you smug and comfortable has to be protected. Between the two of us, I’m not the one living in fear.

PT again, you’re not making sense and you’re arguing a point that doesn’t help your cause.

The fact is – the Polio vaccine was a success. No matter when they got it right. No matter when American citizens decided to take it – they did get the vaccine and that vaccine was and still is a success. What we’re talking about is your disingenuous number comparisons between Polio and COVID. You admit it took years for a vaccine to be developed and developed correctly. You tell me that people early on did not want the vaccine because of its potential dangers. If it took years for shots to get into arms safely with Polio – that’s the reason their is such a disparity with the numbers between Polio and COVID. We’ve come a long way since the early days of the Polio vaccine. How many people have the COVID vaccine now? 190 million – close to 58% of the country have it. Are those 190 million dying off? Are their significant side effects from this vaccine? No. No there is not.

I keep laughing at you, because you actually are the one living in fear. Fear of totalitarian dictatorship. Fear of the vaccine. Fear of the government. I don’t fear any of that. I willingly got the vaccine. I don’t make up wild stories about “what ifs”. I don’t freak about the government or the big bad boogeyman. You’re constantly making up stories. Why? – I do not know.

“Even in this post, you have people who still think that the unvaccinated need to take the vaccine to protect the vaccinated against the disease that the vaccine is supposed to prevent the unvaccinated from giving to the vaccinated.”

Your mumbo-jumbo does not go unnoticed. You know the reasons why people should get vaccinated, but you’re like a little kid – if someone tells you that you need to do something – you refuse.

Poor poor Dawn…….he/she (sorry, not going to use any of the “new” pronouns that Dawn probably prefers) he/she cannot follow the logic of PTC’s argument.

It’s simple Dawn – if you’re vaccinated and the vaccines work….then go on and live your happy life. Why should my lack of taking a vaccine worry you? You’ve taken it and you can take 3 or 4 boosters a year if you want to be protected beyond your wildest dreams. Go right ahead. If I’m sick with Covid and you’re vaccinated, then you have nothing to worry about.

You’re prolonging the viruses reign and you’re allowing it to mutate into other forms.

Obviously though, you don’t care. You seem to love pandemics and their ill effects. Sad.