Barney Fife, commander in chief

Terry Garlock's picture

Those of you old enough to have loved the hapless deputy might bristle at the insult of comparing Barney Fife to President Barak Obama. An insult to Barney, that is.

The latest self-inflicted White House wound is the bumbling President Barney’s swap of five high-level enemy Taliban leaders held at Gitmo for U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, held by the Taliban for five years, and the clearly unsuitable White House Rose Garden press event to celebrate.

For starters, President Barney circumvented Congress, yet again, after receiving a loud and bipartisan “NO” from Congress in prior years when the same swap was proposed.

Second, granting freedom to five high-level Taliban operatives for one American soldier is not an equitable exchange in our country’s interest, especially since they will surely return to the fight against Americans.

Third, this cockeyed exchange now encourages our enemies to seek American hostages in hopes of a similar sweet deal.

Fourth, the tone-deaf White House portrayed Sgt. Bergdahl as a hero instead of the deserter he is.

Finally, at the ill-conceived Rose Garden press conference, Bergdahl’s father chanted Islamic prayers standing next to the President. How fitting.

Maybe the Rose Garden celebration was the point of it all, sort of like Obama thumping his chest when Osama bin Laden was killed, in this case a badly needed pep rally to distract from the VA scandal.

Since Army reports had long documented Bergdahl’s desertion, it is hard to believe the White House didn’t know, and astounding that they doubled down with Susan Rice asserting on Sunday talk shows that Bergdahl had served with “honor and distinction,” thereby proving yet again that Ms. Rice and the rest of the White House staff don’t have the slightest understanding what honor means in our military.

It is puzzling that the While House mitigates desertion because conditions were tough, due to Sgt. Bergdahl’s confused loyalties or his emails saying he was ashamed to be an American and was clearly having doubts about his role as a soldier.

The White House seems to put desertion in a war zone on a par with skipping class, not recognizing it is the most egregious violation of duty, severely punishable even by death.

When Bergdahl’s fellow soldiers spoke out, all six who spoke accused him of desertion and called for his prosecution. Our inept Barney Fife White House countered that these soldiers were “Swift-boating” Bergdahl, an accusation double-layered with appalling offense.

The first layer of offense is implying something dishonest about the Swift Boat veterans in 2004, teamed up with Vietnam POWs to oppose John Kerry’s presidential run because they judged him unfit for office.

Those men were a collection of the finest honor and service you would ever find, and they were right. Even if you disagreed with their conclusion, you’d have to stoop pretty low to accuse them of lying about their experience with John Kerry in Vietnam and their opinion about him as a prospective commander in chief. Just because liberals created the verb “swiftboating” doesn’t make the implication true.

The second layer of offense is the White House implying Bergdahl’s fellow soldiers are lying in their reports of desertion. These were the young men who were there, the same ones who went on many search missions looking for Bergdahl to recover him, the same men whose buddies were killed while looking for Bergdahl.

This White House crew is dumber than a Solyndra investor; they wouldn’t know honor if you spelled it for them.

To wit, while Susan Rice was sticking her foot in her mouth again, President Barney was digging the hole deeper while in Warsaw.

Clueless that veterans and current members of the armed forces would be outraged by the inequity of the trade and the celebration over a deserter, when challenged he said: “But this is what happens at the end of wars. That was true for George Washington; that was true for Abraham Lincoln; that was true for FDR; that’s been true of every combat situation — that at some point, you make sure that you try to get your folks back.”

Well, pardon the application of mere common sense, but there are a few things wrong with that excuse.

First, the war isn’t over. Second, we shouldn’t trade five enemy generals for one American deserter. Third, I think one thing our President doesn’t grasp, no matter how much he wants to compare himself to Washington, Lincoln and FDR, is that unlike him those other presidents were fighting for VICTORY.

I have never known Obama to utter that word, and to him it appears ending a war means you just leave.

Now I’ll take the gloves off. President Obama doesn’t deserve a mention in the same paragraph with those other presidents. Obama’s decisions of military strategy always seem to be dishonest at the core and intended for his own domestic political benefit. Yes, I know those are strong words.

Whether publicly dithering for weeks over a troop surge or planning withdrawal without even considering victory, blundering President Barney publicizes strategies that should be withheld from our enemies in order to please his voter base with his schedule of quitting the fight.

Just last week he publicly informed our troops in Afghanistan that America would withdraw next year, leaving in place a force of 9,800. The Taliban enemy heard it the same day while our troops continue to fight them.

Can you imagine Washington, Lincoln or FDR, in their desperate fight for victory, imposing rules of engagement (ROE) designed by lefties and lawyers to protect civilians on the battlefield at the expense of American lives?

Last year I spoke to a Marine colonel who is now a unit commander and Cobra helicopter gunship pilot, as I was in Vietnam long ago, but his experience is recent combat tours in Afghanistan.

He explained to me the ROE approval chain has become so absurd under Obama he has to make radio calls requesting authority to fire on the enemy, then wait and wait and wait while our troops are being hit on the ground, and if he ever gets radio clearance to fire, before he pulls the trigger, his radio procedure requires that he quote the regulation section that provides his authority to fire, recorded in case lawyers decide to later search for the guilty. I suppose this is the liberal way to fight a war.

Don’t get me wrong, I never felt Afghanistan was worth American blood in the first place, so I’ll be glad when all our troops come home. But it would be nice to have a commander in chief with enough sense to value security of our troops over political advantage, and even over civilians. That’s too much to expect from this clown.

There are other small signs that neither the President nor his White House advisors know anything about the military or care enough to get it right. Even when presenting the nation’s highest honor, the Medal of Honor, Obama makes the fundamental error of calling the recipient by his first name instead of respectfully by the rank he has earned. My guess is that is an innocent mistake, trying to be familiar and not intentionally condescending, but his advisors are supposed to make sure the President gets it right.

All this is a reminder that when just a small percentage of Americans ever serve in our military, the disconnect can be vast between those who order them into harm’s way and the realities that govern military lives. Since Obama surrounded himself with egghead lefties who never dreamed of military service, we should not be surprised at their anti-military attitude.

The Pentagon doesn’t get off the hook on this episode. You may have heard that in the aftermath of Sgt. Bergdahl’s desertion, his fellow soldiers were ordered to sign non-disclosure agreements on the matter, apparently to keep them quiet so the generals could classify Bergdahl as a captured POW, perhaps to avoid the public stain of a desertion case.

If this is true, I have two questions. One, who are the officers in the chain of command who lacked the spine to refuse that despicable order, and two, when will heads with stars on them roll in the Pentagon?

Will Sgt. Bergdahl be prosecuted for desertion? Ordinarily I would doubt it simply because public sentiment usually says, “He’s suffered enough.” In this case outrage is widespread so we’ll see if it lasts. He should be prosecuted if the facts bear out desertion to uphold military discipline.

Will President Barney poke more fingers in the eye of Congress and empty Gitmo to keep a promise to his liberal base? Is he deceptively maneuvering to let the bad guys go since he believes the real evil is not in them but in the military joint task force running Gitmo? I don’t know, but so far he is getting away with his many abuses of power.

If Gitmo is closed, it will be a shame to lose the expertise of the staff there, where our Muslim enemies received far more attentive treatment than American veterans at VA hospitals.

Where is Sheriff Andy Taylor when we need him?

[Terry Garlock of Peachtree City occasionally contributes a column to The Citizen. His email is terry@garlock1.com.]

moelarrycurly
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Religious freedom right next door in Coweta County?

Here's a scenario you might want to think about.
This evening, rush hour, I went through the intersection at Hwy 54 and Hwy 16 (just on the other side of Sharpsburg). As I pulled up, the traffic (4 way stop) was backed up from all 4 directions. I thought wow, rush hour, they have one, too. As I pulled closer, there were 3 or 4 men, on 2 corners (one corner has an a striped island with a stop sign). On the side of the road on the corner was a pickup truck. A man was standing there with a bullhorn. Lined up on the back of the truck on the ground were multiple signs, about 3 ft. by 5 ft., with big black letters, saying He Who Sins is the Slave of Sin and Repent Before You Go To Hell, that kind of stuff. A quote from the Bible and a web address were on the signs, too. Another man was standing right next to the road, in the island, with a sign, too. Across the intersection was another one standing with the same signs, holding one of them up. I rolled down my window and heard the bullhorn guy bellowing about repenting, etc.
Never having been at this intersection on a Friday rush hour, I said to myself, "Self, this sure beats 54/74!" I said a few OMG's and some other sinner exclamations, too, under my breath that I will not share here.

As I proceeded through, I looked to my left, and down about 5 vehicles, coming from Barbie Beach direction, I see a tall thin man, probably early 70's, wearing a maroon fez and a maroon vest that says Yarab Shriners on the back. Standing in the middle of the road (on the center line), with his donation bucket, collecting what he could from the traffic coming to the intersection. Stop and go traffic.

As my brain is attempting to process all this, the stop and go traffic (imagine 54/74 with blinking red lights, Friday rush hour on a smaller scale, the parked truck, the big signs with writing all over them yelling at us to repent and we are sinners and we will die if we don't go to the website, the bullhorn guy, the other guy almost close enough to touch in the road, the other guy across the road, and then finally, the fez guy. Oh, did I forget to mention the dark black clouds rolling in very slowly from the west just beyond there in the distance? The stillness of the 90 degree humid air just before a storm rolls in? Again, I said to myself,...."What does Barbie have to do with all of this???"

I also said, "Where is Charlton Heston when you need him? Stuck in traffic?" I mean, this is Barbie's turf, her intersection, her beach! Some 4th of July preview with rockets red glare and bombs bursting in air? Is this a Coweta celebration ritual that we here in the bubble have never been privy to?

Anyhooo, being my usual nosy self, I did the u-turn down the road and came back, wondering if the other 80 or so cars had done the same as I did. You could take a photo of every driver and have a new listing in Websters dictionary with no description necessary, just their photos under the word, "Rubbernecking (v.)

When I came back through, I rolled the window down again and asked the close up sign guy, "Is this some sort of protest against the maroon guy?" He gave me a wicked, just wicked smirky, smile, and said, "No ma'am just having our say." All rightie, now I knew the game plan! So, just to stir the pot further, I again turned around, and came back the other way to see what Barbie was up to. Lo and behold, she was just chillin! Not even a red, white and blue bikini on..she was...nekked! So were Ken and the others at Morts Bar! I think I saw a very small pungent herb rolled up thingie between her first two pink polished fingers with a teenie weenie puff of smoke coming out of her pursed heart-shaped Barbie red lipsticked lips, but it could have been the steam from the heat of beach sand, too. Again, my grey matter was just doing belly flops in my skull at this point. So, I pulled up next to Mr. Fez, careful not to drive over his curled up genie toes, and threw some change into his hat, since my debit card wouldn't have been much help without the pin #. I waited for a lightening bolt to come crashing down out of the darkening grey storm clouds onto my left arm, and....and....(big letdown here) nothing except a sprinkle of rain. I smiled at Mr. Fez and apologized for not having cash, that I only used debit nowadays. He narrowed his piercing blue eyes at me, smiled his pearly whites and uttered these profoundly wonderful words that I will forever remember, "Well, yeah, don't we all?" And he guffawed at me. Yep, a guffaw! I said, again, to myself, "Dorothy, you ain't in Kansas anymore!!"
I will refrain from mentioning the website on the signs, but with much thought, I am sure you can figure out the denomination represented by these bullhorn boys.

Religious freedom or religious persecution? No U.S. Special Forces will come to help you decide, thank you very much.

So, whaddaya think?? I do believe I have the whopper commuter trip story award of the week, if you please. All true, every tingly moment. God Bless the U.S. of A.

Cyclist
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moe

You win the grand prize!! A free life time subscription to The Citizen.

Enjoy!!

BTW, hello from Biloxi.

G35 Dude
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Gort- You think Social Security/Medicare is a good deal?
Quote:

According to the institute’s data, a two-earner couple receiving an average wage — $44,600 per spouse in 2012 dollars — and turning 65 in 2010 would have paid $722,000 into Social Security and Medicare and can be expected to take out $966,000 in benefits. So, this couple will be paid about one-third more in benefits than they paid in taxes.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and...

If we use Politifact’s data above you’d seem to be correct. But lets look at this a little closer. This couple paid $722,000 into SS & Medicare and got back $966,000. But wait where did the extra $244,000 come from? The government cannot give anything to one that it did not first take from another. What if that couple had invested that money and gotten a return of only 3%? Then $722,000 becomes a little over a million dollars. Not only that but this isn’t even taking into account that the employer matched whatever this couple paid in. So the government collected $1,444,000 (not including interest) on their behalf. Now you’re going to say but, but you said what you paid in. Well if the government takes my money and makes interest on it that I feel should have been mine I feel like it is money that I paid in. When my compensation package (total cost of my employer to employ me) increases and it the increase doesn’t go into my pocket, I feel like I paid it. Social Security and Medicare are government forced rip offs that takes money out of our pockets.

Gort
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G35, in your SS example, the

G35, in your SS example, the only way the couple gets back more than what they paid in is if they both live long enough. But they could also both die and never get their money back, right? Also, one could live and one could die, in which case just one of them would get back the money back and possible more than what they paid in if they live long enough.

Now consider the average life expectancy in Georgia is 77 years. Simply speaking that means half the people die before the age 77 and the other half dies after. So the chance of your couple collecting more than they put in are not very good are they?

SS and Medicare aren't mandatory. If you don't want to pay into SS, work for cash under the table if that's how you want to live your life. If you, don't want Medicare don't sign up when you turn 65.

G35 Dude
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Gort-You want me to go to jail?
Quote:

SS and Medicare aren't mandatory. If you don't want to pay into SS, work for cash under the table if that's how you want to live your life. If you, don't want Medicare don't sign up when you turn 65.

So you're advising me to break the law? And you better believe after what I've paid for Medicare I will sign up for it when I turn 65. But even then it's not free. I'll still have to pay premiums and deductibles on top of the taxes that I've already paid.

Gort
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G35, heck no, I don't want

G35, heck no, I don't want you to go to jail. I was just pointing out your options!

But getting back to your Politico example, I think it makes too many assumptions. It's not a certainty the couple will live long enough to collect more than they paid in. It's not a certainty their employer would ever feel obligated to pay the couple any additional money if there was no SS. It's not a certainty the couple would have invested any or ever part of the money. Even if they did invest their money, it's not a certainty they did it wisely, or if the market was weak when the needed the money most. Is this not so? I think your Politico example is understating the risks.

On the other hand, for about 7.6% of your pay, if you're disabled during your working years, it buys you a disability pension and Medicare insurance. If you die during your working years your spouse and children will receive survivor benefits. If you live long enough to collect your SS benefits you get periodic increases to counter inflation and you can sign up for Medicare at 65. If you live longer than your savings, and that pension money from the job don't go as far as it used to, that SS will keep right on rolling in. Now that sounds like a good deal to me!

I'm just glad we have a Democrat in the White House. A President Romney would be working as hard as he could to funnel that money to his banker friends, and their offshore bank accounts.

G35 Dude
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Gort - Statistically Speaking

Speaking of making assumptions.

Quote:

I'm just glad we have a Democrat in the White House. A President Romney would be working as hard as he could to funnel that money to his banker friends, and their offshore bank accounts.

But sadly I won't totally disagree.

Anytime you look into the future you (or I) are making assumptions. In one of your opening posts you make the comment :

Quote:

G35, statistically speaking, i think you're wrong about the payback on both Social Security and Medicare but if you have something to share I'm glad to take a look at it.

So I gave you something to look at. I agree that some will benefit from SS and Medicare. But the majority will not. (Statistically speaking) Overall these programs are ripoffs and will be so for me. And I had no choice, at least not legally.

Gort
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G35, when you say, 'some will

G35, when you say, 'some will benefit but most will not,' wouldn't that be true of any kind of insurance?

For example, I've been driving and paying car insurance for over 40 years and never caused an accident. I could say, if I was allowed to invest that money I would be a millionaire after 40 years, right? What I couldn't say is, I was properly managing my financial risks, especially during the early investment years. Is this not so?

BTW, it was no assumption. Romney had the Republican budget guru, Ryan as his running mate, and I know exactly what they had in mind for working people and exactly who was going to soak up the spoils.

G35 Dude
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Gort-Are we taking a left turn?

Early in this discussion you said:

Quote:

G35, statistically speaking, i think you're wrong about the payback on both Social Security and Medicare but if you have something to share I'm glad to take a look at it.

I think I proved that "statistically speaking" I was right. If you want to now shift to comparing SS and Medicare to insurance the discussion has changed. I opened this can of worms by declaring my appreciation of Zell Miller for coming up with a program that helped me with the cost of my kids education without forcing me (or anyone else) to foot the bill. You play the lottery only if you decide to. If you now want to say that SS and Medicare is just like insurance, I'll still point to the fact that you're not forced to buy insurance. You'll respond that you are if you want to drive a car. And my response will be similar to your response earlier about working under the table. Just don't drive.

Gort
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G35, your victory exists only

G35, your victory exists only in the vacuum of your narrow imagination. 8 -)

My argument is, SS and Medicare is insurance, not an investment. Rather than acknowledge the obvious you arbitrarily declare victory by sidestepping the question that was actually asked.

I'll ask one more time, is SS and Medicare any different than any other insurance products?

AtHomeGym
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G35 & Medicare

You won't pay for Part A (Hospitalization) but will have to pay for Part B (Doc/Primary Care Fees). But if you retire from a profession what allows you to carry Health Insurance forward into retirement, that may be best.

G35 Dude
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AHG
Quote:

You won't pay for Part A (Hospitalization) but will have to pay for Part B (Doc/Primary Care Fees). But if you retire from a profession what allows you to carry Health Insurance forward into retirement, that may be best.

That is my plan. All I was trying to do is to point out the real cost of SS and Medicare to Gort who seems to think that we were getting a good deal.

AtHomeGym
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G35, Gort & Medicare

Gort just retired--be interesting to know what he does for healthcare. He probably canceled whatever he had so he could support the AHCA!

moelarrycurly
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Antother day in the life of Barry

Gen. Petraeus, on Wednesday, said "This cannot be the United States being the air force of Shia militias or a Shia or Sunni Arab fight. It has to be a fight of all of Iraq against extremists who do happen to be Sunni Arabs but extremists that are wrecking havoc on a country that really had an enormous opportunity back in 2011, has made progress in certain areas but has certainly not capitalized on that enormous opportunity in the way that we had hoped."

Barry, in the meantime, is working to ensure there is sick leave for gay couples.

In about 10 minutes, Barry will meet with PM John Key of New Zealand.

At 12:10, he gets his daily briefing.

That's all folks. A day in the life of Barry...

moelarrycurly
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Barry aka Barney

to speak live about Iraq at 1:15PM today.

Update: I actually dozed off trying to listen.

Maliki has no intention of incorporating Shia into the parliament.

Another day in the life of Barry.

PTC Observer
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Well Moe, I hope you don't go

Well Moe, I hope you don't go to sleep reading this but here's some thoughts on developing a road map for "winning" our asymmetrical war, call it a prologue to the map.

Having a map but not knowing where you want to go, is kind of silly; however, our government has been doing exactly that since before 9/11. First we must agree what we are attempting to do. What does it mean to win an asymmetrical war?

What is an asymmetrical war anyway? I know you know this already Moe but for those who are familiar with term. It’s a war where the one opponent is much weaker in attack resource or undermanned compared to their opponent. This situation goes by many names, "guerrilla warfare", "insurgency", "terrorism", "counterinsurgency", and "counterterrorism". However, they are all the same in concept.

Our current foes are united by religion and not political philosophy and they are significantly weaker than Western Nations. Their ideas are common in one regard, they hate the West and all its institutions. They are willing to die, anywhere at any time for their cause. They will take as long as it takes to take down Western culture, so this is a long war a very long war. Perhaps it will last for fifty or one hundred years, this is what makes it so different than past wars the West has fought. Islamic world supremacy is our foe’s end goal but what’s ours? More on this point later.

Since the Islamist's are united by a religious dogma, dogma can be used to keep more moderate believers in line, silent and frightened of being called “non-believers”. We on the other hand have a fragmented “alliance” of representative governments, which are themselves fragmented internally in political philosophies. So, getting agreement on how and when to fight our adversaries is problematic. This dynamic, juxtaposed against a united religious dogma is daunting to say the least. This is a major weakness that the West has in an asymmetrical war against ideological Islamists. To make matters worse, these Western governments change often, thus they change their approach to the problem often, not a good proposition for a long term war.

So, how do we develop a long, very long, strategy for fighting this war? What’s the goal or objective? How will we get there? What’s the road map to the goal?

Given the diversity of governments in the West, getting agreement requires that the only remaining super power provide leadership. This means we must separate politics from our war strategy and efforts. Given the current US political climate this will be impossible, we must wait for leadership to emerge from the current political chaos. I firmly believe that it will emerge, just like it did following 9/11, I only hope it doesn't require another attack but fully expect it will. The nature of the attack could change our world once more and not in a good way. After all, 9/11 brought us the "Patriot Act".

More on the map in a later post.

moelarrycurly
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PTC O-You are

much more articulate and informed than I am in the ways of our government and military. Many are on here. For some of us, 9/11 will always be one of those "moments" in our lives when everything stopped. Some of us felt terror we never had ever before on that day. Now that those who are under the age of 21-23 years old are growing up post 9/11, they only hear and read about it.

I know that older generations already realize that this perverse religious zealotry will be a part of our world for generations to come. I would guess there are youngsters in this country who have no idea it was not an army that attacked the U.S. on 9/11. It was 19 men.

The older I get, the more I realize the absolute strength of character and moral courage it takes to lead, truly lead. You are right, that leadership has not emerged yet. I do agree with you, it will.

For whatever anyone thinks of him now, here is a statement that was sent out on Nov. 1st, 2001. A survivor of the attack on the Pentagon on 9/11 emailed it to me on the same day it came out.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/sept11/dod_brief66.asp

Thanks for your thoughts. I look forward to the map.

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Leadership following 9/11?
Quote:

I firmly believe that it will emerge, just like it did following 9/11

Many on the right,left, and moderate question, using hind sight, the 'leadership' following 9/11. Please continue. Where do we go from here? A young man who just returned from combat reflected that they were fighting a religion - and what is winning in this case? He is paralyzed, but returning home alive.

PTC Observer
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Would've, Could’ve, Should've - Gort

Would've, Could’ve, Should've

Well, I could tell you that before we left Iraq, we should have left behind a government that represented all of the people of Iraq. Or better yet, we could have broken the country up into smaller units that allowed local control based on religious preference. The fact is Mr. Obama was characteristically naive and incompetent in his approach to the American exit. This is no surprise to anyone given that Mr. Obama continues to say he doesn't know anything beforehand about anything, in this he's very believable. So, following staff instructions, he declared victory and left, not such a bright way to approach the problem but it was politically expedient I suppose. This whole “agreement” thing is a smoke screen for incompetently giving power up to a Iranian surrogate government, something the Sunnis were never going to accept. Now we are living with this political move and more importantly the world is a more dangerous place because of it.

But all that is history and it proves that elections have consequences and that the majority is not always right. After all, look at what the majority has gotten us in Iraq and “fair” elections elected a group of people that don’t represent all the people of Iraq. Here in the USA, the majority of voters elected someone that manages the government based on what he believes the next poll will look like following a decision.

Electing officials based on a cult of celebrity is never a good idea. These public celebrities just continually promote themselves in front of cameras. The trouble is, they actually start believing their own hype and ignore obvious negative outcomes. They have their apologists or staffs explain them away and wait for the politically motivated press to line up with their shallow story lines.

So, what can we do now that the Mid East has all fallen apart? Well we are fighting an idea Gort we are not fighting an organized army. So, it’s a war of ideas isn't it? How would you go fight a war against an idea that men rule the world and women are just one step above dog poop? How would you fight a war against three or four generations of males that have been taught that killing people is the way to heaven? How do you fight a war against the idea that using women and children to carry bombs into buses to blow them up is OK? Where do these people learn these ideas? Where do they get their money to promote them? What hope and promise can Western culture offer? What can consumer wealth, human dignity and peace offer to these misguided poor people? Where is the most appropriate “beachhead”, where do we start to counter these ideas? There is one thing for certain, we will pay for these blunders within our own country. Sadly this could have been avoided, but then the we know that the majority is always correct in decision making, (tongue in cheek).

More on the road map to "winning" in a later post.

brewster
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war of ideas

The idea of Western Culture with hope and promise? Pornography, drug addictions, mass shootings, inner-city decay, gang bang wars, divorce rate, homosexual encouragment, corperate fraud, prison industry, Godlessness? We offer too much negative propaganda fodder to be taken seriously in the "guidance" department. We need some serious plank inspection in this country before any beachhead is to be considered.

PTC Observer
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brewster - OK

So, what's the alternative? What exactly are we fighting for and against?

Certainly, Western culture is not perfect and the things you mention are all examples that our foes use in justifying jihad. If you don't like those things perhaps you could support them in the quest for world domination. That way we can get things under "control", but then I suppose there would be no need for a beachhead, just be-headings.

So, we are not attempting to protect all those bad things you mention, we are attempting to protect the freedoms that allow those things to happen. Which is worse brewster, do you want freedom or a controlled Islamic world?

Remember it's all about the "vision" of the way world should be, not the way it is. I for one will always stand on the side of individual freedom to choose. Not so with the Islamists.

brewster
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protecting freedoms PTCO'er?

Freedom to have mass shootings? inner-city decay? Heroin peddling? You seem to think you must like those things or support Islamic World domination. Blasting to smithereens the islamic extremists is fine by me, just not your rose color glass view of the current American definition of "consumer wealth, humany dignity and peace" to be used as a carrot.

PTC Observer
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brewster - OK

The world should not have those things that you point out and most here would agree, but we do. It's part of human nature and the freedom to choose good over evil.

So, the object of this discussion is to define a map to "win" the current asymmetrical war being fought. I think all here would welcome any thoughts you have on this point of discussion. Any solutions you would like to pose for debate, would certainly be welcome by all here.

Thoughts? If not, we can assume then you have nothing more to add to the dialog, though I think we all get your point.

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understood Mr. O

I agree with most of what you say, just compelled to step in when I don't agree with a comment. Trying to keep any polyps from forming, you know.

AtHomeGym
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Brewster & Polyps

No worries about polyps--takes 3 or 4yrs for them to be dangerous and by that time this current hiccup should be all over with. But there will be others only by then our leadership (sic) will be different!

PTC Observer
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Brewster - Totally

Understand about those polys.....LOL

Gort
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PTC_0, as far as I know, the

PTC_0, as far as I know, the US is still engaged in Iraq, so it ain’t over yet. If having US troops in Iraq wasn’t enough leverage for Maliki to share any meaningful power with other ethnic minorities, (primarily Sunni’s.) then perhaps it took this insurrection to apply more leverage.

As far as the Sunni leadership goes, I don’t know if they’re even negotiating in good faith.

What I do know this. Our US ground troops are not in Iraq, taking a pounding in convoy and foot patrols, while the Iraqi politicians make up their mind. If Iraq needs to be split up, or reconciles, it can done later down the road.

Sadly, I must say, I think your, (and others,) statements, regarding the competence of the President, lacks any merit at all. The closest thing I see to a cult, in US politics, is the Republican Party and the echo chamber that supports it.

Anyway, I look forward reading your post on, ‘The Road Map to Winning.’

PTC Observer
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Gort - You and I

agree on some things here, it is our approach that is flawed. We'll continue in other posts.

BTW, it's not just the current President and staff that is incompetent, the incompetency covers many years and administrations. Mr. Obama is simply upholding the continued incompetency by the US Government. As to the cult comment, we can say this about a lot of political hacks, not just the current President, who will simply become extremely wealthy because of his cult status.

More on the Road Map later, I am leaving for a while out of town so won't have much time to write, but thinking, well that's another matter.

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PTC_0, have a good trip,

PTC_0, have a good trip, we'll talk again when you get back.

Davids mom
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PTCO - continue by answering
Quote:

Sadly this could have been avoided,

How?

What do we do now?

moelarrycurly
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A day in the life of Barry

Let's see..

Putin has shut of the flow of gas to Ukraine after an 85% price increase. He has also stopped the import of Ukraine's agricultural products. Europe gets 15-30% of it's natural gas from Russia.

China has agreed to buy more than $350 billion of Russian crude in the coming years.

Kerry says we will we are open to work with Iran on Iraq.

The 5 year old, 75 million dollar US Embassy in Baghdad with 5,500 personnel is being emptied this week. A few hundred US Marines will be left in place. The largest embassy in the world will sit empty.

US Border Patrol now say they cannot stop the flow of Mexican gang members, MS-13, coming in. Many are 16-17 years old and have gang tattoos and will not be sent back, as there are no mandatory detentions at the border.

1PM-Barry and Moochelle depart Palm Springs

5:15PM-Barry and Moochelle arrive at Andrews

5:30PM-Barry and Moochelle arrive at the WH.

Davids mom
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Moe

You should have seen his schedule leading up to the killing of OBL!! It ended with a high profile dinner, before 'we' knew what was going on! Thank heavens The Seals are trustworthy! Journalist (reporters) there are very few real 'journalist' left/ social media etc. - can this 'intelligence' be trusted? The Middle East is in crisis! The countries in this region are in danger. ..as is the US. The question that is perplexing everyone - what do we do now? We claimed we (US) didn't know about the solution to the Jewish problem. We know what is happening by ISIS. Every country with humans for citizens should be involved in stopping this manslaughter. What are the 'rules' that these terrorist are following? We joined others to stop Hitler. I repeat, what do we do now? Continue to blame Obama and follow Linday Graham's suggestion to get in the game?

The game: What are the rules ? Who are the players? What determines winning?

Davids mom
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NEWS BREAK -BAGHDAD
Fred Garvin
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Newsbreak USA

-Obama is a criminal, a coward, and a traitor to the USA. He and his toadies in the department of injustice are allowing and encouraging the flow of illegal criminals to cross into the US. It's past time for a constitutional convention and a revolution. It's time to exercise our rights and take the country back from the lawless butt-wipe Obama.

PTC Observer
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Mr. Garvin

Be careful what you ask for, you may get more than you bargained for in a Constitutional convention.

PTC Observer
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Mr. Garlock - War

The Democratic way you win wars, is you say you won the war and leave. It's akin to the Chamberlain doctrine. So, if you're Mr. Obama, it's clear. You leave no one behind and you let everyone go........because the war is over, because you said it was over.

This all works fine.......for a while, then all Hell breaks out and people start screaming for the Marines, that are all equipped with second rate weapons.

By that time, Mr. Obama will be living the high life in Ashville, N.C., while our troops will be maimed and killed in droves, AND he can blame it all on the Republicans!

It's all so predictable.

What's the definition of incompetence? Criminal.

Gort
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PTC_0, actually the US was

PTC_0, actually the US was agreeable to keeping forces in Iraq beyond 2011 but the Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki, (at the urging of religious fundamentalist,) refused to sign a “Status of Forces Agreement.”

Without the “Status of Forces Agreement” our troops would have been subject to Iraqi courts. This was an unacceptable condition and the actual reason why we left Iraq when we did. Anyway, that’s how I remember it.

The fiasco we see going on now was authored by the Iraqi Prime Minister himself. Maliki refused to share power with other ethnic groups in his country. They resented it, organized, and are now striking back.

At this moment, as far as I’m concerned, Maliki dug his own grave, let him lay in it

PTC Observer
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Hmmm....Gort

You may be right in all this, but it's not what's in Maliki's interest, it's what is in the interest of our country that counts. We're so focused on what looks politically correct, we forget who the enemy is we are fighting. I suppose we'll remember again when we experience another 9/11, then for a short while, we'll be united again.

"Without the “Status of Forces Agreement” our troops would have been subject to Iraqi courts."

Are you kidding me? We aren't subject to anything when we're in control of the county.

It's not Maliki's grave that I am worried about Gort.

Gort
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PTC_0, so what do you think

PTC_0, so what do you think should be done, re-invade Iraq?

PTC Observer
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Gort - What to do

It's too late Gort, the President has lost his opportunity to make certain this never happened. The best we can do now is prepare for war here on our own soil, which will mean less individual freedom. That's the whole point, change the culture of America in favor of BIG government.

The Bush doctrine, of fighting our enemy on their own ground has been abandoned by our geniuses in the current administration. So, we'll have to fight them here because our current government is ineffectual.

Mr. Obama is incompetent and we will pay for it in our own blood.

Gort
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PTC_0, oh yeah, some

PTC_0, oh yeah, some opportunity! More like a burden but before I begin, just for the record, I want everyone to know it wasn’t me that brought up the Bush name, it was you.

But since you brought it up I’ll say this about it. IMHO, the foreign policies of President Bush were discredited long before he even left office.

I feel comfortable saying that because after nine years of war, $2 trillion in treasure, 4,487 killed, 32,223 wounded, I don’t see any flourishing democracy in Iraq, do you? All I see is a corrupt dictator, sucking up American aid, directing it to his relatives, and more terrorism than before the war ever started.

Tell me how many more years of war, treasure, lives, and bodily injuries should we be willing to endure to prove that the Bush Doctrine really works?

It looks like we are moving a carrier task force into position for what could be the Baghdad Bailout.

PTC Observer
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Gort - Read

my post to NUK_1 for my response. A flourishing democracy is not what the people want, they want a Theocracy. If the people don't want a democracy, there's no way to force it down their throats, no matter how much cannon fodder we want to throw at it. We don't have the leadership to win this war, and I am not talking about Baghdad or Iraq.

The carrier task force is a political move that will solve nothing, Baghdad is lost Gort.

The opportunity that we had in Iraq is lost, this opportunity was to foster individual freedom and a "clean" government required to protect God given Rights. I suppose that's a bit much to ask from our government that can't even do this for its own people. Poverty is the catalyst for extremism, if you have something to lose, you want to protect it and your life. People who produce personal wealth want to continue to do this, not go blow someone up. It's not in their interest to do it.

Gort
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PTC_0, sorry buddy but I’m

PTC_0, sorry buddy but I’m not convinced. I don’t know if the Iraqi people want democracy or not. What I do know is their current leader doesn’t. (The people probably want jobs even more than democracy right now, eh?)

I also know that the, so called, “Bush Doctrine” couldn’t export democracy at the point of a gun into Iraq either.

IMHO, blaming the current administration, for the failure of the “Bush Doctrine” to deliver on its promises, is just a right wing political ploy to shift blame.

The suggestion that the current administration is unwilling to reach out into other countries to get at the terrorist is just an outright lie.

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OK, Gort

I am not here to convince you either, the results of our current state of affairs speak for themselves, whether the current or past administrations are responsible doesn't matter much.

It's clear to me at least that the current administration has fumbled an opportunity to bring freedom of action to the people of Iraq. However, as I said before, it is difficult to believe that our government is capable of delivering this since it seems that they are working very hard to take it away from the American people.

Where there is no hope for a personal future, there is only hope for paradise in another world Gort.

"In an al-Qaeda house in Afghanistan, New York Times reporters found a brief statement of the "Goals and Objectives of Jihad":

Establishing the rule of God on earth
Attaining martyrdom in the cause of God
Purification of the ranks of Islam from the elements of depravity"

The war is coming to our shores Gort, even if it takes 100 years. Guess what? We can stop it, if we have a leadership knowledgeable and wise enough to know how. This Congress and President are just making things worse, not better. Mr. Obama is incompetent. We can only hope the next President won't be, but history suggests that we will likely be disappointed. Again.

Gort
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PTC_0, as you already know,

PTC_0, as you already know, I’m not trying to change your mind either, just sharing a conversation.

I read what you said about the al-Qaeda statement and I’ll say this about it. Al-Qaeda can make any kind of statement they want but if they think the world is going to stand by, with there hands in their pocket, and just let it happen, they will find that statement about as damaging to them as the Bush doctrine was for the US.

Besides, at this point in the ‘war on terror,’ I think the current strategy of intelligence, special operations, and drone warfare is a superior way to strike directly at our enemies that tend to work in cells around the world. They make enemies wherever they go and make it easier for us to find them, capture or kill them.

Anyway, that’s the way I feel about it.

PTC Observer
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Gort - As you see it

then, all we have to do is continue the battle in a different way a different method. Is the outcome any different? You say that "they make enemies wherever they go" are you speaking of the terrorists or us?

The current way is to kill as many people that fight against us. To what end? How many people will we need to kill for the war to be won? How many generations will we need to kill? What is the promise of Islam? There are 800 million people that follow this religion. Let's see if only 5% believe that the road to paradise is to kill non-believers, that's 40 million. So, will we need to kill 40 million? Now let's suppose that some of these folks decide to set up their own "democratic" government, one that is charged with fulfilling the goal of killing non-believers. Let's say, that this government decides to develop their own nuclear weapon for the purpose of killing non-believers. Well, you can certainly see that this wouldn't work in our interests. Do you think that Mr. Obama has done an effective job of diminishing this possibility? Do you think he has drawn another of his famous red lines?

Gort
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PTC_0, what I’m saying is

PTC_0, what I’m saying is President Obama did the right thing pulling our troops out of Iraq when Maliki wouldn’t sign a Status of Force agreement with us. It was the right thing to do for our troop and our country.

The nuclear threat, (remember the yellow cake,) was one of the primary reasons we invaded Iraq in the first place. Are we supposed to invade every county, we don’t like, that we suspect, or have, or plans to build nuclear weapons?

If yes, than let me ask, when does invasion of North Korea and China begin? When does the invasion of Russia, Iran, and Pakistan begin? Personally, I don’t think we have recourses to do it all so we have to find a better way.

If you have a different opinion, as always, I glad to listen to what you have to say.

PTC Observer
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Gort - Did I

Did I advocate that we invade countries?

What I am saying is that once we committed troops to Iraq, we should have had a plan, a plan that could have been developed by the current President. My recollection is that after many years of fighting we had pretty much stabilized the country. Mr. Obama and his band of merry incompetents blew a chance to take the situation and make it better. We see the immediate results of a politically driven plan to leave Iraq. Something that Mr. Obama promised he would do and he did. The fact is that he did not think it through, it was a knee jerk reaction, or one driven by the political left.

As I have said before the Status of Forces "agreement" should mean nothing to America, we could have ignored it provided we have a plan in place. We could make our own "status of force". In fact, the Bush Administration, only a bit more competent than the current bunch, also blew it by agreeing that we would have such an agreement. No Gort, it's the fact that our system of government is driven by short term political gain and not the long term best interests of the American people.

Until we understand that all those people living in poverty in the Middle East want the same things we want, we will not be successful in our "war". We can't kill enough people to change their minds but we can help change their level of wealth making it in their interest to preserve it.

The key to all of it is individual freedom, that is what we should be insuring both here and the Middle East. Generally, dying for Paradise becomes less appealing when you are providing a wonderful life for your family. When we see people begin to prosper instead of falsely believing that corrupt governments can do it for them, we will know we are on the road to "winning" the war.

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PTC_0, you already told me

PTC_0, you already told me that you don’t want to re-invade Iraq so I believe you.

I just don’t recognize what exactly the opportunity was that you say Obama let slip through his finger when it comes to Iraq.

What I’ve read is this. Without a Statement of Forces agreement, our troops could be subject to Iraqi law. The President decided that was an unacceptable condition.

If your position is the US should just ignore the fact that no Statement of Forces agreement exist, well okay then what next?

Maliki has no interest sharing power with the Sunnis but the US would just keep insisting on it. My guess is Maliki’s would rather have Iran as an ally before the US. If you read Maliki’s wiki bio, it pretty much tells you why. We were never going to get an agreement out of this guy.

IMHO, the reason we went to war in Iraq means nothing to the Sunni vs. Shia war taking place in Iraq now.

BTW, I'm sure your read the US captured the ringleader responsible for killing four Americans in Benghazi yesterday.

Davids mom
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We can't just ignore - ignoring is another form of ignorance.
Quote:

Until we understand that all those people living in poverty in the Middle East want the same things we want, we will not be successful in our "war". We can't kill enough people to change their minds but we can help change their level of wealth making it in their interest to preserve it

Typical thinking of one who feels that 'money' will bring about 'understanding'.
Do you understand their religion? Do you understand their attitude towards a woman and a woman's right to an education? Not all persons of the middle east want the same 'freedoms' that we enjoy. There are many educated women in middle eastern countries who respect their religion - and accept the wearing of their garments as a sign of understanding their role in their society. Correct, we cannot 'kill' all of the poor, uneducated citizens of the Middle East - but until we understand and respect them - and not try to change their way of life overnight or at the end of some 'occupation' - in order for them to exercise 'freedom' according to our standards - we will not be part of assisting them in obtaining peace. Our concern should be protecting American interests; assuring American security; allowing citizens of the different regions to PEACEFULLY establish strategies for living together without the fear of terrorism.. This is a job for the world community - not just the US - and not
just for citizens of the Middle East.

Davids mom
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Review Rumsfield Iraq's 'winning' strategy

before blaming the incompetents who followed the Bush years.

Git Real
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PTC Observer.....

Very eloquently laid out. Thank you. In the mean time this depraved administration is successfully pitting the people's of this once great Republic against one another via race, class warfare, political lines and anything else they are able to utilize to divide the American people.

United We Stand - Divided We Fall Just be mighty careful folks with what you stand with.....

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Hey, Garloch, I thought I

Hey, Garloch, I thought I smelled something rotting on “The Citizen” opinion page, and when I looked, well, there you are!

Anyway, I must have less faith in the Congress then you do. My opinion is, if the Congress was consulted, some ‘TeaBraggin’ congressmen, couldn’t help themselves from grandstanding the issue in public, and getting the hostage killed.

Then you would have blamed the President for not bringing home the soldier alive, eh? Lets face it, that’s just who you are.

All this desertion talk will be sorted out in time, if true, a court martial should follow.

BTW, this is what I think of when someone associates the name Barney Fife with a President. Remember this? Ha!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o

Git Real
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Your Defense Of This Administration

Your defense of this administration is dishonest and shameless at best.

Gort
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I thought I was slamming the

I thought I was slamming the Congress not defending the President.

Besides, everyone knows, (or imagines,) a President Romney could have got our hostage freed for a box of ‘Cracker Jacks’ and a rusty pocket knife, eh?

Git Real
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I Proudly Stand Against Your Side

The treatment of our veterans, abandoning our border protections and security, government escalation of intruding on our private lives and eroding our personal liberties and freedoms, Iraqi soldiers and policemen whom we trained and convinced that WE had their backs if they would stand against terrorism, are now lining the roads to Baghdad are murdered and beheaded. US militiary assets being used against the Iraqi people. Reinforcing the terrorists by replentishing thier ranks with released terrorists. Benghazi lies,.... my god this list is expanding at such a rapid pace and hacks like you continue on pounding congressional arse when they have been the only branch of government 'somewhat' restricting Dear Leader's ineptness or nefarious agenda or whatever the hell you want to call it.

Gort... In your defense of this administration and the leftist agenda that is killing this counrty right now is what you stand on.... then I stand against you and the battle lines are drawn. Let the SHTF sooner than later......

You guys are mentally ill.

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GitReal, well, since you

GitReal, well, since you brought up the laundry list, tell us, how you would organize the available resources to provide border security to the degree that you demand?

What would you do differently to improve military veteran health care?

You want to discuss Iraq, okay with me. The reality is the Iraqi government told the US we are not welcome after 2011 so I really don’t understand what your talking about when you say Iraqi troops have an expectation that, “..we have their backs.”

The US military assets you speak of were given to the Iraqi Army years ago. I don’t know how you can call them US military assets. I did read a news report the other day about how a few thousand insurgents took the city of Mosul from two Iraqi divisions, (30k men.) Many Iraqi solders abandoned their uniforms, Iraqi military assets, and ran. I’m pretty sure the US forces didn’t train them to do that, do you? You got a plan to fix that?

If you have a better plan for doing any of these things, tell us what they are, I’m willing to listen.

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No worries...we just bomb them back to the Stone Age

That's what happened in Bosnia during their big sectarian civil war that had been going on forever. Clinton said "Hell Yeah" and then NATO pounded the hell out of the country until the only thing left was the Russian/Bosnian mafia to pick up the pieces. Lovely results there too, if you're into organized crime and involved heavily in human trafficking. Not so good for anyone else.

Real simple: let these religious nut-jobs kill themselves and stop getting in the way.

The "we need the oil" argument is hopelessly ignorant when the USA gets the majority of its oil and has for years and years from.......Canada. Not a Middle East country, not Iraq, not this or that. Stop meddling and let these people go ahead and kill each other. Should have done that in Bosnia and now have a chance to just step aside and let them slaughter each other without the US choosing sides.

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Asymmetrical War - NUK_1

Requires asymmetrical strategies and tactics. This is something that our current government can't even begin to understand much less implement.

Oil is not the question with Iraq, it never has been for the United States. The British created Iraq to serve their strategic imperial interests. It doesn't serve our interests to maintain a 19th Century geopolitical model.

Flawed intelligence drew us into an unnecessary war and once engaged we fought it with 20th Century concepts. This was juxtaposed against a 12th Century religious doctrine.

The Middle East has 300 million people living in poverty, this is due to the fact that all of the government regimes in this area are corrupt. This poverty is the cauldron for extremist philosophies that promise something far better than a miserable existence. The paradise the masses seek in the Middle East, is simply not attainable on earth, there is no hope for it either.

The question is, if they choose to give up individual freedom for a religious philosophy and a promise for faith based paradise, what business is it of ours? Well, it's none of our business.....however, if they want to conquer the world with their religious philosophy, well that's a different matter. Isn't it NUK_1?

So, given the stated goal of the Islamist leadership to destroy Western culture, we had better begin to think about asymmetrical responses and begin to protect ourselves for the war coming to our shores. It's coming, ready or not, 9/11 was just the beginning. Call it the new 100 year war if you will.

Do we have the will and knowledge to understand what is going on and what is needed to protect our nation and freedom? Currently, I would say definitely "no".

What we have is incompetency.

PTCO

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Reasonable Recommendation If......

We secured our borders and controlled who gets in utilizing proper immigration channels..... And no amnesty to lawless.

So let's hold illegal aliens to the same standard our government hold you and I. Secure the borders NOW. Otherwise I fear the fight is destined to take place on our soil next.

And Drill Baby Drill.......

Reasonable solutions are there.... This all has to go far beyond inept leadership....

Git Real
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I Will Play

To address your first point.... I would have diverted arms, armored vehicles, massive supplies of ammunition, surveillance gear, personnel, monies, and other resources spent on making powerful, government controlled enforcement agencies designed to keep We The People (that means you and I Gort} in line as our government now dictates. And instead turn our surveillance and enforcement efforts on our border security, enforcement and IMMEDIATELY detaining and returning the illegal individuals. That is the FIRST and most OBVIOUS and EFFECTIVE step.

So tell me Gort... Why are domestic government agencies purchasing enough lethal ammunition to put 5 rounds in every American when we could have protected our nation and prevented this horrible humanitarian crisis and lawless invasion of country which is the result of ineptness or by design. Either way... our future is radically transformed and it won't be for the good of the American people.

But you go ahead Gort... Continue on with your cocky, obtuse defense of this sock puppet boy wonder mob leader but spare the rest of us the "But, But, But Bush" line...

Time to man up boy. Step away from the Dark Side Gort.

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GitReal, you make it sound so

GitReal, you make it sound so easy but tell me this, if it’s so easy to secure the border why has no President ever done it?

I really don’t know if domestic agencies are stockpiling ammunition or not. When you told me about it my first thought was, ‘maybe they’re expecting trouble,’ eh?

I tried using Google but I couldn’t find a credible source. All I seen was a lot of noise about it from the blogs that specialize in that kind of nonsense.

I thought about it a little more and I said, that is really a lot of ammunition. To buy that much ammunition the Congress would have to agree to pay for it first, wouldn’t they? If you believe it’s true, and it has you so worried, perhaps you should contact your congressmen about it.

In the meantime put me in the skeptical column.

Git Real
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Big Sis Denied Congress Information Regarding The Stockpiling

Go do your homework you court jester. You wreak of Chris Matthews tingle....

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GitReal, your unwillingness

GitReal, your unwillingness to answer even a simple question to defend your position, just shows how ‘dishonest and shameless at best’ your argument is.

Anyway, thanks for the chat, see you in the funny papers.

Git Real
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Hey Pretty Boy....

Bite me. I will be glad to debate anyone who possesses the basic decency and intellectual honesty to admit that this president, his administration and the vast majority of Washington and those that are associated with it are acting in a lawless, inept and damaging manner while We The People are gearing up to pay the price.

And the whole time folks like you defend the same pieces of human debris who will feed your guts to a terrorists as long as it enables them to maintain their lucrative and perceived safe positions they are desperately clinging to.

The willingness is here Clown. I offered some basic, reasonable and common sense steps that could have and will make a difference if acted on asap. Bottom line..... There are more productive things in life to pursue than slap-around with some MSM-Minded internet troll. Meanwhile you get back to your boot licking boy.

Oh well.... no sense in wasting time here. Time to hit the road for a while to make myself useful....

Davids mom
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Does GR possess

intellectual anything? His opinion is welcomed - but he is not going to waste anymore time here. A loss? For some, certainly. He is part of the group that has difficulty expressing his opinion without denigrating all who happen to disagree with him. He didn't take 'debate' in high school. . .I guess.

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GitReal, okay, I’ll try one

GitReal, okay, I’ll try one more time.

If protecting the border is as easy to do, as you say, than why has no President ever done it?

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A better question
Quote:

If protecting the border is as easy to do, as you say, than why has no President ever done it?

A better question might be, why won't this President even try? Securing the boarder is a matter of security for this country.

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Not allowing access to benefits etc..

might be a better way to handle the invasion. Anyone that doesn't have a valid reason to be here is detained and sent back. Same thing that would happen in Mexico to a US citizen. Vacationer's are fine, also someone with a VISA permit and a legit job..etc...

Obviously what we have been doing the last 40 years or so hasn't worked.

Treat unwanted visitors to our Country the same way they would treat US visitors that were unwanted in their home Country. Seems fair to me.

Gort
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G35, it’s a different

G35, it’s a different question, not better but you did help bring me to my point. The answer to my question is this.

No President has ever successfully closed the southern border because no President ever had the resources at his disposal to actually do it. If it could have been done, it would have been done.

Right now the US has about 21k border agents, detention centers are overcrowded, and we deport more illegal aliens then ever before, so when you say, ‘this President doesn’t even try,’ it just tells me this is just a cheap lie, brewed up from the right wing propaganda mill, being repeated by either a partisan Republican activist, or an uninformed goober.

In fairness to you G35, I think you’re more of a partisan Republican activist. GitReal would be an example of the uniformed goober.

G35 Dude
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Gort- A deeper look

Spy makes good points above. Immigration is actually a double edged sword. Yes there is the question of resources that are expended at the border but there is also the question of "encouragement". Things like all the handouts that these people receive. The things that make them want to come in the first place. My statement that Obama doesn't even try was as Snopes would rate it as multiple truths and false. If we restrict the discussion to resources at the border then Obama did increase the number of agents. However he is now considering budget cuts that would harm this effort. And I do not think that he has done enough to address the problem once they are here.

As for being a Republican activist, well I think I'm more of a moderate. However most hardcore Democrats do accuse me of being a Republican. I've never voted a straight ticket and the politician that I most admire is actually a democrat. Zell Miller helped me pay for my kids to go to college. No politician has done anything that tangible for my family. So if I'm a Republican, it's not that I left the Democrats. It's because they left me.

Gort
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G35, you didn’t condition

G35, you didn’t condition your first reply as you did in your second but I still stand by my answer. If it could be done it would be done.

So, you heard Obama is asking for budget cuts for border security? I Google searched it and read Obama wants to increase the budget by $1.2 billion and reallocate resources from the interior to the border? Oh well, I can’t explain why you see one thing and I find another. Their must be at least two internets, eh?

Believe it or not, I consider myself a moderate also. I mostly vote for Democratic candidates because I don’t think the Republican Party has ever done anything for the working man, I don’t believe social programs mean the end of the free enterprise system, and I don’t like the way Republicans dog people around.

I’m glad Zell Miller was able to help you out with your kid’s education. Be patient and Franklin Roosevelt, (social security,) and Lyndon Johnson, (Medicare,) will help you out when you get old and retire.

G35 Dude
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Gort-Maybe
Quote:

I’m glad Zell Miller was able to help you out with your kid’s education. Be patient and Franklin Roosevelt, (social security,) and Lyndon Johnson, (Medicare,) will help you out when you get old and retire.

If those programs survive that long!!! LOL

Gort
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G35, I hear that cliché all

G35, I hear that cliché all the time. It could come true if too many Republicans get elected to congress. Their moneyed up special interest would insist on it.

G35 Dude
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Gort-Cliche

Cliche or not I don't put these programs in the same class as the Hope. Why you say? Well I consider these programs (SS, Medicare) rip offs because I will never get back what I've paid into them. And I am forced to participate. The Hope is funded by a lottery that I can play or not as I see fit.

Gort
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G35, statistically speaking,

G35, statistically speaking, i think you're wrong about the payback on both Social Security and Medicare but if you have something to share I'm glad to take a look at it.

G35 Dude
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Gort-What statistics are you using?
Quote:

G35, statistically speaking, i think you're wrong about the payback on both Social Security and Medicare

What statistics are you referring to? I reposted my analysis at the top. I did so to make it easier to read.

Davids mom
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G35 Dude

Your question:

A better question might be, why won't this President even try?

The answer:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/286/se...

As we reported last year, personnel and other resources to stop illegal crossings of the U.S.-Mexico border have increased dramatically in recent years. One vivid statistic from Homeland Security: The number of border patrol officers more than doubled from about 10,000 to about 21,000 between 2004 and 2012.

There are concrete reasons for dissatisfaction - but it is disingenuous to say Obama didn't 'try'.

G35 Dude
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Interesting DM

Interesting article. It appears that Bush and Obama have put some effort into securing the border. I hope the effort continues and the cuts that I referenced below don't happen.

AtHomeGym
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G35 & the Border

I vote for Federalizing the Arizona & Texas National Guard and give them the mission.

G35 Dude
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AHG-Good Idea but not new

Apparently Bush had the same idea in '06. He put 6,000 guard troops on the job with the border patrol. By '12 most of the ground troops had been replaced by helicopters. Current budget cuts threaten to cost the guard 100 helicopters leaving them with about 15 for border patrol. If that happens the border will be wide open.

Davids mom
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Is Gort a boy? Hmmmm.
Quote:

diverted arms, armored vehicles, massive supplies of ammunition, surveillance gear, personnel, monies, and other resources spent on making powerful, government controlled enforcement agencies designed to keep We The People (that means you and I Gort} in line as our government now dictates.

Are you talking about TSA strategies? Are you talking about Iraq? What 'government controlled' agencies other than state militia, law enforcement - are being used to 'keep Americans in line'? Thanks

Git Real
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Go Git Informed......

And apply some cognitive skills along with a bit of open mindedness and some damned common sense for once. Peace out and stay on your side of the fence and we will be okay... History has proved that dialogue with the left-minded is a waste of time. Onto more reasonable pastures......

Davids mom
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Stay informed

:-)

Davids mom
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Mentally ill?

The 'talking points' are not original; the 'stand' is each individuals right; and I know those of you who are 'standing' hate to hear this - but how did we get into Iraq is the first place? BRING OUR SOLDIERS HOME AND LET THE DRONES DO THE WORK!

Git Real
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Drones My Arse.....

The only hope we have now is that Obama's Iraqi Surrender Withdrawl is followed with that part of the world turned to glass at this point. ALL HOPE is lost now...... Shameless.

So is your Dear Leader going to protect our border now or what????? Or is Dear Leader further leveling the playing field by allowing terrorist and cartels to smuggle in whomever and whatever they want under the cover of protecting outlaw illegals?

When is your Dear Leader going to be held accountable to the laws of this land or do We The People follow Dear Leader's lead along with the rest of the Establishment Outlaw leaders example and run our lives in a lawless and unaccountable nature?

What gives DM? Wake the freak up. You are viewed as disposable trash by the Establishment Elite just as this white boy is. Dear Leader and Ilk are devouring the goose that laid the golden egg for ALL of us. Why do we all have to go down this way?

Good gawd ALL of your partisan fools......

Davids mom
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Git Real

You evidently are proud at being a small business man. Congratulations. You are well aware that if there was no one buying drugs, guns, in our country - the drug runners, gunrunners would be crossing the borders of some other country. Obama was not even born during the 'moonshine' era when certain parts of our country and certain citizens made 'money' by breaking the law. The Iran/Contra scandal? What affect do you feel that had with our moral standing in the world? Your anti-establishment tirade is very revealing - when supposedly economically - you should be a part of the 'establishment'. As always - you reveal too much, . . .especially your non-partisanship! Safe travels.

Git Real
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There Are Many Things......

There are many things over my life that have caused me to 'cringe' over the behavior and positions our country has taken over the years. But never.... have I been as ashamed of this government as I am now.

With that said..... Let's say I give in and join ya. Just when do we start to see the positive effects of Dear Leader's "Fundamental Transformation" of his government? And does this transformation mean that I can also be as lawless as I choose as long as I don't own a firearm and I sell my soul to Obama's and your world view?

Davids mom
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Git Real

I'm sure you have the answers to your questions. Please share them. I'm not giving in to the apparent quiet, but insidious plans for 'revolution' in this country - that would affect all of us regardless of political beliefs - by making citizens more proud to be a member of a political party than being an American. What steps can be taken to restore our economy; restore the respect for our way of life throughout the globe; restore our pride in who we are and what we stand for? I know - get rid of Obama. This will be a reality in 2016. Who will be 'your' leader then? What will change? Will Americans be united behind this change? A United States that is not 'united' is what the enemy wants - and unfortunately, we have a group of enemies who are uniting. . . .within and without our borders.
We all need to WAKE UP!

AtHomeGym
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Hey Git

You back in town or blogging from afar?