Reflection on Obama’s foreign policy ‘blunders’

Reading the various whining columns of the regular “struggling” prognosticators and certain right-wing commentators, one would think that this special country is in danger of immediate relegation to the dust heaps of history.

Prior to the last presidential election, Mr. George Will referred to the “soon-to-be former president” as a “talk-show host” while predicting a massive landslide victory for Mr. Romney. He has not let up since then; on the Arab Spring, Iran, Crimea and other global developments, the “incompetence” of Mr. Obama has led to the perception of the USA as weak and floundering, to be ignored or, at best, challenged by countries as small as Monaco and with armies as large and strong as that of Vanuatu.

Other commentators in the Washington Post, the Citizen, at Fox (and affiliates) have all dissected, thrashed and assessed a failing grade for the president’s foreign policy.

Each of these persons has a right to express their opinion(s) as they see fit. However, if they are to be taken seriously, commentators must avoid ad hominem and present factual, logical statements. I do not have all relevant facts but I pride myself in having a non-rabble-rousing mien but with a phlegmatic approach to analyses of current foreign policy challenges. Here is a sampling:

The Crimea

Most conservative commentators aver that “loss” of the Crimea is a consequence of a perceived weakness and incompetence of Mr. Obama’s. This same cohort had labeled him “incompetent” as soon as he was elected in 2008, so there has not been any progress towards competence or any tangible accomplishment during his years in office.

But seriously, will the reversal of an impulsive action by one who has almost become forgotten in his home country be reason for the USA to initiate immediate hostile actions?

Crimea was, until a re-drawing of the Russian map by [Soviet leader Nikita] Khrushchev, Russian territory. Mr. Khrushchev changed the map of Europe and Mr. Putin “updated” that map. But why so much noise on changing (arbitrary) maps?

The collapse of the USSR, Yugoslavia and the Austro-Hungarian empire all changed the map of “modern Europe.” The original or “native” maps of Africa were completely (and arbitrarily) changed by certain European powers who considered those maps unsuitable for their imperialistic plans for the continent and its peoples.

A consequence of this tampering with maps is the continuing inter-ethnic conflicts or instability in various “countries” in Africa. In all of these, no president of the USA (or a European country) has been accused of weakness and incompetence.

The Arab Spring

Those yearnings for freedom that led to the overthrow of several autocrats in the Arab world were so spontaneous that even prior knowledge by the CIA or other western intelligence services would have little changed the outcomes.

Sadly, we lost a charismatic and efficient ambassador in Libya and we are still holding “hearings” (costing millions of dollars) to determine what happened there.

Someone please tell me how to react to a populist unrest seeking to remove a leader this country has relied upon to advance some of its policies in the Arab world. Do we bomb the demonstrating citizenry or act to thwart their genuine aspiration for freedom, democracy and human advancement?

This is not the 17th or 18th century but the 21st century. Some commentators assert that the president’s incompetence was responsible for our intelligence agencies’ lack of foreknowledge of these events. Additionally, the president has been faulted for not shrinking the federal government to a more manageable size, readily amenable to micro-management.

Maybe saddling an analyst with ten additional “intelligence” responsibilities will improve our overall intelligence capabilities, even in the absence of reliable, local human operatives.

In the UK and USA, the Parliament and the Congress, respectively, denied the prime minister’s and president’s request for authorization to take (military) action on Syria.

In the USA this was strictly a political ploy but it may also be linked to “war fatigue” as well as a struggling economy. But, assuming the president was able to go into Syria when Mr. Assad “crossed the red line,” would the collateral damage from potential exposure to Syria’s chemical weapons not negate gains from this exercise?

Simply, it would appear that the decision to negotiate removal of these chemical weapons is more profitable than bombing of Mr. Assad’s instruments of oppression. Meanwhile, whether a presidential election is held in Syria or not, the civil war rages on. It has reached a point the Assad regime needed to negotiate the withdrawal of the activists from a major stronghold (Homs) without third-party involvement.

The Iranian conundrum

The Iranian nuclear dispute is not a problem for the United States only but one that more significantly (ominously?) affects the Middle East and some allies of the USA. The relationships with and between these allies – Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, to name a few – complicates the position of the United States on this issue.

I am still to figure out the primary answer to the question, “In a Christian – Mohammedan struggle, where do the US’s Middle Eastern allies stand?”

This, in my opinion, is relevant because of current developments: Pakistan, despite billions in US aid, had Osama bin Laden living in its garrison town of Abbottabad for many years.

Please do the math. Pakistan’s Dr. A. Q. Khan has been instrumental in the proliferation of nuclear centrifuges for uranium enrichment, pivotal in the manufacture of fissile nuclear materials. If the mostly Christian west is nuclear-powered in all aspects, why would the Muslim countries not be able to similarly arm themselves?

It may appear only reasonable for some commentators to assume weakness when the Obama White House chose not to destroy the Iranian nuclear facilities or allow Israel free rein. Destroying the facilities will set back the Iranian nuclear enterprise many billions of dollars and years of developmental work. But it will, invariably, lead to civilian deaths and increased radicalization of Muslims.

We must understand that it takes only one Muslim suicide-bomber (maybe US home-grown) to disrupt our daily routine and cause a spike in security budgets nationwide. How much of the latter can we continue to absorb, without gutting spending on education, healthcare or infrastructure?

The current conservative position is that the sanctions are a consequence of weakness and have not affected Iran. If the rhetoric from Iran is cautiously set aside, what would be the reason the Islamic republic is negotiating rather than maintaining its usual bluster?

Credit must be given to an administration able to muster and sustain a global (albeit mostly Christian) coalition against nuclear proliferation and threat of the worst kind.

Gratitude

The lone superpower does not have to convince any other country of its staying power or capabilities. What should motivate our intervention in potential brush fires should be determined by our national security and economic interests, not exhibitionism or a puerile desire to intimidate any persons or country.

Ultimately, if an administration has been able to prevent wars, famines or general strife without losing a soldier or expending a bullet while gaining global respect, it should have earned the gratitude of its citizenry.

The USA remains a military and economic superpower, with many of the world’s inhabitants desiring to live on its lands. Some continue to plot its destruction or do it serious harm but, so far, it’s only a desire or a plot.

More importantly, at West Point recently, Mr. Obama stated, “Just because we have the best hammer does not mean that every problem is a nail.” I unreservedly second Mr. Obama’s approach to foreign policy.

Peter Awachie, Ph.D.
Fayetteville, Ga.

Davids mom
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Foreigners more adept at US LAW?
Quote:

The Obama administration previously committed a $250 million aid package to help with the successful repatriation of children once they are returned to Central America. The aid package includes efforts to combat gangs, help at-risk youth who are susceptible to gang recruitment, and improve citizen security in the Northern Triangle.

What is going on in these countries?

Guatemala

Homicide and rape. Although homicides dropped last year, 759 women were still murdered, with at least 522 from firearms, 70 from stabbings, 156 from asphyxiation, and 11 from decapitation or dismemberment. In 2008 alone, more than 6,000 people were killed, mostly due to the drug trade. And in 2012, Guatemala reported an average of 99.5 murders per week

El Salvador

Gang violence. Kennedy found that 60 percent of 322 child respondents she interviewed are fleeing gangs (also known as maras). “Of the 322 minors I interviewed, 145 have at least one gang in their neighborhood, and about half of these live in a contested gang territory,” she wrote in an American Immigration Council report released Tuesday.
Two of El Salvador’s largest gangs — Mara Salvatrucha (MS13) and 18th St — target adolescent boys for gang recruitment and beat them when they do not join. Gangs also target adolescent girls to become “girlfriends” and threaten or rape them when girls refuse. One mother fled with her two daughters to the United States because she wanted them to have a chance to “become women.”

Honduras

Gang violence. The country is plagued by the Mara Salvatrucha and Barrio 18 gangs, which in March 2012 called for a truce to commit zero violence and zero street crime. The truce was momentarily effective, but short-lived. Honduras’ population is young and susceptible to forced gang initiation, since 40 percent of residents are under the age of 15. What’s more, urban gangs coerce young males to transport drugs, a 2012 State Department report found.
A 16-year-old teenager recently told a Washington state television affiliate that he decided to flee violence in his native Honduras because he watched a gang member beat up and kill his grandfather. The teenager told reporter Maria Guerrero that he specifically fled to the United States because his mother, a woman he had not seen for 14 years, was living in the United States.

Living in Los Angeles - and familiar with the 'barrio' culture - I hope these children/families are not sent to large urban areas where the18th Street Gang and the Mara Salvatrucha are very apparent and active. A hope for a better life is why anyone's family came to America - (with the exception of those who were forced). It may be that the leaders in these countries are more aware of the immigration law in the United States than our so-called leaders in our Congress. It is apparent that the Congress inability to act on our antiquated immigration policies has put us in a position that has gotten out of control - legally.

I hope this president finds a way to deal humanistically and lawfully with this crisis. We must elect a Congress that is aware of world conditions and can anticipate how our law will be used and interpreted by others. A long overdue reform of our immigration policies MAY have helped in this crisis.

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obama is a wannabe dictator

"President" barry "sack-itch" obama set the tone for his term from day 1 when he basically told republicans in congress that he was not interested in there ideas. He told them "I won" and then said to get lost in so many words. Valerie Harriet stated that the idiot-in-chief Obama was "ready to rule".
Barry is no leader. He's nothing but a pathetic little narcissistic boy that can't cannot cope with the fact that people disagree with his ideas and may have better ideas for dealing with issues that our country faces. He is such a poor leader that he cannot even get one of his lame-brained budgets passed...not one! As reported across the nation he is the WORST president since world war UK. The Supreme Court ruling confirmed that he overstepped his bound as "president". Let's hope thinking Americans take notice and demand that we all can opt out of paying for the newsletters rubbers and abortions.

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Sorry Fred...

But the low information voters in this country will continue to prevail. If this poor excuse can be reelected you can be assured that our country will once again make history in 2016 by electing the first female Presbo......Hillary! The female voters will prevail. Someday, the Conservative/Republican party will find a strong candidate besides the likes of people like Johnny Mac, Sarah Alaska and Lerch Romney.

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Sorry Fred...

But the low information voters in this country will continue to prevail. If this poor excuse can be reelected you can be assured that our country will once again make history in 2016 by electing the first female Presbo......Hillary! The female voters will prevail. Someday, the Conservative/Republican party will find a strong candidate besides the likes of people like Johnny Mac, Sarah Alaska and Lerch Romney.

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Sure saw lots of mothers with those 'unescorted children" and

they were all saying they heard if they came in with their children they would be accepted. Also saw many who were not 'little children'. Why are we only now hearing about this if it has been going on for some time? It is one thing to be humanitarian but when does it become too much? We are up to and over our ears in debt and we continue to pour money into 'advisors' etc and giving away money left and right. Now our government (president) is asking for three million for legal representation for these new illegals and eight million to house them. Why are they even allowed to come into the country if, as the government is saying, most will be deported? Why not refuse to let them come in to the country in the first place? We know where they are coming in, we see them being photographed as they enter. We simply cannot continue to borrow money we don't have to take care of everyone else's problems as out infra-structure, etc, fall farther and farther into disrepair. Also, there is no incentive for any of these countries to do anything to correct their problems when it is easier to have their people come to the US and send money back home like the Mexicans have been doing for years. Building up their country on our backs. Humanitarian efforts like charity should begin at home. Unless we get our own country back on track we will become just another banana republic, unable to help ourselves much less anyone else.

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Obama The ‘Worst’ President...
G35 Dude
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Cy-Shocked?

You needed a poll to figure this out? LOL

Cyclist
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Hey Dude

No, not really. It was a slow day on "The C". I thought I can get some mileage out of the post. :-)

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What a poll!

We're a divserse country of millions of people. Those who contributed to this poll - 1400. I'm not shocked.

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I'm afraid

the worst is yet to come.

He is coming unhinged.

His new mantra..."So SUE ME!"

Our forefathers are turning over in their graves.

859 long, very long days to go.

I think a trip to Colorado every weekend might get him thought this. Not us.... him.

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MLC - Apparently

you haven't read the White House website, Mr. Obama is providing plenty of "leadership", for example he just visited Mexico. See how much better things have gotten since this February's North American Leaders’ Summit?

The best way to make the border issue better is just let it disappear.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/02/19/president-obama-travels-mexico...

You're right about one thing, things are going to get much worse before the elections, re-election desperation brings out the very worst in politicians.

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He's setting the table for a woman President

Making it easy for a woman to come in and clean up his mess while preserving healthcare and all the new Democrat voters (its for the children) streaming across the border just in time to vote in 2016. That's the good news. The bad news is that when the Clintons don't run, someone like Elizabeth Warren will and she can cobble together enough votes from the females, the deadbeats on welfare, all the newly covered with healthcare crowd, the 3% who are gay and the 10% who support them and the rest of the mongrels in the Democrat Party to beat the next old white guy the Republicans push forward. You think 8 years of Obama was a long time? Wait until that happens. That's when we know it is over for sure.

Don't say it can't happen, because all it would be is an ineffective, first-term, minority Senator with no real voting record and wild transformatic dreams from a liberal state running against a weak Republican candidate. Happened twice with Obama and once with Kennedy if you consider that a Catholic is a minority - and many did back then. If nothing else, you can count on the Republicans to pick the wrong guy - someone who is fairly adequate as a leader, maybe even good - just so he toes the line on their insane desire to control women's bodies. Think about how dumb that is when running against a female Dem.

You gotta remember, no Presidential candidate is going to convert a hard-core Dem to a Repub vote or vice versa, The one who wins is the one who gets a majority of the independent votes in the middle - and you don't please people in the middle by spouting extreme right or left views. It is best to have no principles at all, tell people what they want to hear, make promises you can't keep and just leave it all behind after election day - if you actually want to win.

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Thank you RWM

It's comments like yours that is turning Georgia BLUE!

Quote:

It is best to have no principles at all, tell people what they want to hear, make promises you can't keep and just leave it all behind after election day - if you actually want to win.

Moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats have principles - and if we elected 'statesmen' to Congress instead of easily bought politicians - this government would be on the right track again. Independents, minorities, and women will elect the next President. Let's hope the next Congress will have a better 'rating' than this one!!!

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Great quote you came up with, Dm - describes Obama to a T

and others too, but he has set the standard for an inept leader with no accountability and no shame for his dishonesty and divisiveness.

I too hope that the next Congress has a better rating. For me that means 60% of both the House and Senate would be "rated" R. Then we can rid ourselves of this tyrant. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with race - how could it? He's half midwestern white and half African black.

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Read carefully Mudcat

Not my quote. Of course it has nothing to do with race! (Why did you even mention it?)

A different point of view - that just may keep Republicans out of the White House if they can't acknowledge that there is a different point of view:

. Soldiers coming home (except to remain to protect American embassies and interests)

. More deportations than under any other president.

. Economy picking up after 8 years of Republicanism

. Students getting a break after BACK BREAKING student loan fiasco. (The youth vote)

Quote:

an inept leader with no accountability and no shame for his dishonesty and divisiveness.

You have your right to your point of view - fortunately the rest of the country does not agree with you. The rating for The President is low - but take a look at the rating for this Congress! They can't even pass in the House the bills they propose!!!! Oh well .. thanks for sharing.

.

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Terrific quote. Mom. You got Obama's number, finally

That's pretty much what I have been saying about him all along. At first he was just an empty suit in campaign mode 24/7, but lately this power thing has really gotten to him. Glad you are seeing the light.

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Obama Is First As Worst President Since WWII

More Voters Say Romney Would Have Been Better

Obama - Typical lying bedwetting liberal thief that hates America

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DM's response to RWM's quote
Quote:

Moderate Republicans and moderate Democrats have principles - and if we elected 'statesmen' to Congress instead of easily bought politicians - this government would be on the right track again. Independents, minorities, and women will elect the next President. Let's hope the next Congress will have a better 'rating' than this one!!!

Davids mom
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RWM

Read the last sentence of your post on Thu, 07/03/2014 - 7:13am. That 'terrific' quote is from your post. Wow!! You and muscat really should not try to speed read - and take a comprehension course. THE QUOTE WAS WHAT YOU SAID!! LOL! Again, I was quoting you! Of course there are some points that persons of different political beliefs may agree on - but the extremes of both parties have failed the American people - and the majority of the citizens of this country are not blaming it all on one party or The President. The lack of cooperation and willingness to work for all of the citizens of this country is disgusting. If France had entered our Civil War - we probably would be speaking French! (NOT) The Congressional leadership is lacking - thank heavens there is some common sense in the implementation of our foreign policy. We must protect our own - and not take sides in another country's war. . . .especially a war in the Middle East which has been going on since written history began.

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Hey DM
Davids mom wrote:

Read the last sentence of your post on Thu, 07/03/2014 - 7:13am. That 'terrific' quote is from your post. Wow!! You and muscat really should not try to speed read - and take a comprehension course. THE QUOTE WAS WHAT YOU SAID!! LOL! Again, I was quoting you! .

Are you sure about that?

Davids mom
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Look at the current post 4

Got to do it now - the numeration changes!

Check the time!

mudcat
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We were just playing ping pong with you to see how you would

react. Unglued - as I predicted.

Here's something you can respond to as a card-carrying liberal without getting sidetracked by race or your hero Obama.

The Hobby Lobby case was not about contraception because the contraceptive methods outlined in the insurance coverage were not in dispute - what was in dispute were 2 or 3 so-called contraceptive techniques that riled up the ultra religious owners of Hobby Lobby and the woodworking company that was also part of the lawsuit. Specifically the morning after pill. If you believe life begins at conception as I and most logical people do, then the morning after pill does not prevent pregnancy, it terminates pregnancy that began the night before. Therefore, the Supreme Court ruling was about abortion and it was against abortion in a limited way. All the shrieking from morons like Hillary about women's rights is to cover up and divert from this inconvenient fact. The liberal press is running away from that obvious truth as well. This ruling may lead to the abortion (pun intended) of Roe vs. Wade and put a stop to the baby killing for the convenience of the mother's lifestyle. It should still allow for abortions when the mother's physical health is endangered, rape and incest as well, but baby killing just because the liberals rename a baby a fetus and claim it is not alive? What madness.

Davids mom
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Game?

Glad you took the time to read the article I shared. When you can share your point of view without calling those who disagree 'morons' - then no one will be accused of being 'unglued', etc. LOL. Nice attempt to defend your lack of knowledge. When we in the 'burbs' stop playing games, and seek solutions to problems that our 'leaders' in the so-called 'conservative' and/or 'liberal' sections of our country appear unable to deal with - we might get on with the business of immigration reform, jobs, etc., etc., etc. (This 'conservative'/'liberal' fight is killing the GOP for the White House in 2016. Women, minorities, independents and our American youth are sick and tired of this non-action of our Congress and the obstructionism in dealing with the current POTUS.)

Robert W. Morgan
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That wasn't much of a response to mudcat's fantasy

Here is what I think she said in a simple outline:

Life begins at conception - not at 12 weeks or 24 weeks or some other number picked by a lawyer or a doctor giving paid expert witness testimony.

Therefore, a morning after pill terminates a life that began the night before.

Terminating a pregnancy is called abortion.

Hobby Lobby believes that and even though they agreed to pay for 15 or 16 types of contraception, they did not want to pay for a morning after pill, nor do they believe in abortion.

The Supreme Court agreed, albeit 5-4 and that means they voted (along idealogical lines) to relieve Hobby Lobby from an obligation to pay for this type of abortion.

This leaves the door open for similar rulings that will chip away at the abortion upon demand that the Dems and women like Hillary Clinton think is the most important issue in the world.

That's what mudcat said and your response is, well, non-responsive.

In my opinion, life does begin at conception and thinking anything else is completely wrong and those that believe anything else think more of a lawyer's opinion or even 9 judge's opinion than they do of God's opinion. I have never met a lawyer or a judge or a Democrat that I would confuse with God.

While I applaud the decision, I doubt the holy grail of abortion upon demand is in any danger, but at least it is becoming clear that forcing companies to pay for it is not going to be allowed. The line has to be drawn somewhere, so why not there?

Having said all that, I don't believe abortion should be part of the political dialogue. You want to kill your unborn baby, that's up to you and your God and your doctor - maybe your baby daddy as well. But please keep these useless political hacks in Washington out of it - don't care if they are pro or con - just stay out of it. As the Hobby Lobby case proves, the hacks are trying to get everything paid for by someone else and if abortion (or birth control, if you insist) were not politicized by both sides, this issue would not have been raised.

Davids mom
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There are areas where agreement is possible
Quote:

Having said all that, I don't believe abortion should be part of the political dialogue. You want to kill your unborn baby, that's up to you and your God and your doctor - maybe your baby daddy as well. But please keep these useless political hacks in Washington out of it - don't care if they are pro or con - just stay out of it.

I agree.

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The shape of things to come....

Protesters block migrant buses in Calif.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/07/01/migrants-buses-cali...

I would like to think the union spokesman for Boarder Patrol agents is incorrect about just dropping these illegals at various bus stops in that region. This situation is getting out-of-control.

I find it extremely interesting that the president and all his little minions keep saying that this crisis is all about the broken immigration system. This problem that's causing the current crises has nothing to do the Senate proposed immigration bill. South Texas is getting overrun with these illegals and the "gov" does not know what to do. It simply does not have the resources to deal with this illegal tide.

Davids mom
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CYCLIST

I realize and respect your 'conservative' beliefs. Your first paragraph makes common sense - and a position that many are concerned about. Then you take the 'attack the president and his minions' course - instead of seeking information regarding a legal approach of handling the possible over more than 40,000 unescorted children crossing our borders from countries SOUTH OF MEXICO. The 'gov' still has to follow existing law - which does not handle this crisis - so the need for REFORM of our immigration policies. What is Congress doing? NOTHING!! I hope the president does ACT. These children are HUMAN BEINGS - not cattle that have broken a fence.

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Hey DM - No need to shout

Attacking the president???? Me???? ]:-)

Anyways, that "law" was the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 and like most laws the meat of the issue - in this case the illegal minors - is buried very deep in the text. Yes, it was signed by President Bush - remember him?

Moving on to 2012 and the infamous Dreamer Act officially known as the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals. The president thumped his chest and proudly proclaimed - for all to see - that it was the right thing to do because….well because he says so. Now enter the human traffickers that basically outwitted our educated leader and manipulated the Dreamer Act's language and are now making money hand-over-fist escorting these children and a lot of their mothers. They reach the Rio Grande and are told to find any US border patrol agent and surrender. They'll get free transportation, housing, food and medical care which by itself is scary. After all, Obama said they're safe.

Combine the effects of the Dreamer Act and the 2008 law and our elected leaders have created the perfect storm.

So now we send Kerry and Biden to try to stem the tide. Oh, and they come bearing money to throw around - so typical. (Too bad the VA is not getting any of that money to address its problems) Also, let's not forget Hillary - you know that now private person that seems to be getting attention from all the press -; she's acknowledged that those illegal minors can't stay. (Wow, imagine that!!!)

Now to the minions. They're the ones that blindly trusted the president and don't have a clue of the long term implications of this flood of illegals.

I do hope the president does something soon after all he did take an oath.

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Cy- using a 'quiet' voice of reason
Quote:

Now to the minions. They're the ones that blindly trusted the president and don't have a clue of the long term implications of this flood of illegals.

There are always two perceptions of a problem - and both perceptions and the facts that assist in forming these perceptions need to be carefully looked at in finding a solution.

Children and often their parents have been illegally crossing the California border before Bush and Obama were born. The school districts, small businesses, the agriculture industry and landlords have been profiting from this human trafficking for generations. School districts, inundated with a growing attendance problem accepted false documentation of citizenship - received state and federal monies for these children - kept teachers and support staff employed. Landlords rented substandard housing to these arrivals, with no fear of them reporting the conditions of the houses/apartments. Small businesses 'hired' these new arrivals with no fear of being held accountable to ' minimum wage'/ health requirement for working conditions, etc., etc,. etc. Then came the issuance of Social Security numbers to all citizens born in this country at the time of birth. Before the signature on this law was dry, before the SS cards were issued to legal families of the new borns, one could purchase a SS card in McArthur Park and elsewhere in LA County. A new industry was born! There were persons in leadership positions who were aware of this - and once in a while an attempt appeared to be taken to correct illegal practices - but the reality was; landlords had money to support politicians who took their time studying the situation; school districts realized implementation of legal steps would require loss of funds, reduction of staff, etc. After the result of the trickle down economy/sending work to overseas workers so that American businesses could make a bigger profit became apparent, and Americans were unemployed and there was no work for the undocumented did this problem become a real issue for both political parties. (I know, a terribly long sentence) Hence the largest deportation of illegals was implemented under this president.

I wonder what think tank came up with the idea to start a campaign in our neighbors south of Mexico advertising 'free' education to young people who make it across the border? Now until our astute members in Congress read the bills you have mentioned and request a Supreme Court interpretation, this president has another crisis. I know, it's all Obama's/ Hillary/ the Democrats fault.

I'm proud to be a citizen of a country that treats 'law breakers' with some modicum of humanity. These children are not being kept in Hilton Hotels while this crisis is resolved. The chaos at our borders is adding to the ugliness of our immigration system. The actions of minority citizens in Mississippi is being carefully looked at - and not just by the loser. The Republican Party is divided. A third of the party is refusing to represent ALL Americans. Maybe strategists might develop a plan to get rid of that 'third' so that statesmen instead of ideologues can deal with the mounting problems in our country.

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DM

I remember reading some years back that by 1990 LA County would have a Spanish Speaking population second only to Mexico City. That obviously came to fruition.

Most of which you acknowledged in your lengthy paragraph describing life in LA County is a result of the inability to enforce existing immigration laws. I'm afraid the reality is that specific economy you discribed is not going away even if there were new immigration laws which - IMHO - will be ignored.

As for what think tank, I suspect it's the same one that thought it was a great idea to advertise the SNAP program in Mexico. That was nothing short of a stroke of genius (eyes rolling).

Honestly, I'm waiting for the big push to add illegals to the ACA. While some can make the argument that illegals should be able to purchase insurance my big concern is the future claim that the US gov - that's you and me - should provide the same subsidized care as low income citizens. With limited healthcare resources who should get priory?

Congress needs to read bills they pass.

For some reason that reminds me of Pelosi's infamous comment about the ACA - But we have to pass the [health care] bill so that you can find out what’s in it….

So regarding all those thousands of minors, are they to be deported or what?

Davids mom
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Illegals getting legal privileges

I remember when there was an attempt to allow illegals to vote. Didn t happen when a segment of Americans realized what they went through in order to vote in all 50 states. Illegals will have the same rights as Americans when they become legal. Now what party doesn't want them to have the voting right? Why? What reason would Asians, Hispanics, Blacks have not to trust the current GOP?

Davids mom
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Cy - deportation of minors

IMO - it depends how existing law is interpreted. It appears that if a parent accompanied them and it can be proved that their lives will be in danger if they are returned, deportation may not be imminent. In negotiating with other countries regarding human rights issues, this situation does nothing for US credibility. We've been put in an ugly position - not too different from the 60's and the attempt to end segregation.

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Hey DM - Deporting Minors

LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-deport-children-20140706-story.html#...

It's interesting that those that championed the 2008 law are not in favor of changing it.

Oh, and please note, this this story is from the LA Times and not Fox News but nonetheless it doesn't paint a nice picture regarding the administration's claims on what's driving the tide north.

OK, that's it for the night. I'm sure we'll chat more tomorrow.

Davids mom
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CyCLIST

Just sharing a thought from a possible different perspective. When viewing the 'protestors' expressing their feelings towards the children crossing the border - I was reminded of the facial expressions and taunts I personally heard in Nashville, Tennesee when attempting to sit at a 'counter'. This is not the picture that describes America today - I hope? President Bush tried to reform our antiquated immigration system - and there is a proposal before this Congress. To keep ignoring this problem for political and economic reasons means we need new leadership in Congress. I hate to think of my tax dollar going towards the salaries of men and women who cannot tackle this problem. If they were working for me - and they are - I would fire them!! It is a waste of energy to blame the White House when this is an issue that requires cooperation between the White House and the Congress.

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Expressions

You want expressions….go to France and see a strike get out-of-control or better yet go to Israel and see the Israelis and Palestinians go at it. Very vicious.

What occurred in Murrieta, California were citizens reacting to a failed federal policy.

Immigration policy - I suspect you'll see a change and then a few years down the road the whining will start again by those that failed to follow the "new" rules.

You firing someone…..I've got to see this. :-)

About Nashville, Tennessee and sitting at counters…. I certainly can't change your memories but, as I said before, that was a sad time.

Davids mom
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A Sad Time Cy

as you describe it - has returned. (I do feel that we had a period of growth in how we treated humans in this country.)

I've 'fired' only those who were incompetent and unable to improve skills needed to get a job done. I have always felt that 'firing' someone was also my failure to judge correctly when 'hiring; my inability to train for competence'.

It is sad that you feel you have to compare Americans' to violence in France and Israel. Aren't we supposed to be better? You, with your world travel know that we're not - although we profess to be.

I'm researching the source of funds for those advertisements in Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador. (The desire to cross the border from Mexico has almost ceased - since jobs are not as available as they were in the past.)

It will cost to follow the current law of 'due process' regarding the minors from countries in South America. It will cost to 'house' the refugees that have entered our country. It will cost to return the children to their countries - since we can't use 'coyotes'. Maybe the persons who paid for the advertisements will contribute to the COST?

Davids mom
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Cy - ???? :-)
Quote:

It's interesting that those that championed the 2008 law are not in favor of changing it.

Did you mean 'not in' favor orr now in favor'?

Cyclist
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DM

…not…..

Davids mom
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Cy
Quote:

Most of which you acknowledged in your lengthy paragraph describing life in LA County is a result of the inability to enforce existing immigration laws. I'm afraid the reality is that specific economy you discribed is not going away even if there were new immigration laws which - IMHO - will be ignored.

I respect your opinion. I see most of the need to reform being ignored because it will cut the profit margin for the businesses that take advantage of this 'shadow' population in our country . With the movement to 'buy American' shoppers are looking for the label-Made in the USA! The Asians and Hispanics who still remain illegally in our country - true, don't pay income tax. But they pay taxes on all that they purchase. Some counties in LA and elsewhere (Gwinnett ) felt the loss when certain 'immigrants' left and took their buying power with them. The outline of a suggested reform proposal appears reasonable - and certainly not amnesty. The demographics in this country will not stop its present trend. The GOP is making some powerful enemies - IMO. The GOP should at least participate in a bi-partisan attempt at needed reform- which would include strategies for meaningful enforcement and consequences for disobeying the law. Saying ' I don't think reform will work is seen by some as saying NO.

Quote:

I remember reading some years back that by 1990 LA County would have a Spanish Speaking population second only to Mexico City. That obviously came to fruition.

Cy - LA was founded by Spanish speakers . The names of the majority of streets, etc., are Spanish! When visiting Mexico years ago, we were told that there was a concerted effort to take back their land. Well, they did! Please, don't pretend that the 'Anglo' population didn't see this coming. The concern was not citizenship or assimilation - but cheap labor! IMO.

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Hey, Garloch, don’t look now

Hey, Garloch, don’t look now but I think the Doc is talking about you!

Quote:

…various whining columns of the regular “struggling” prognosticators and certain right-wing commentators, one would think that this special country is in danger of immediate relegation to the dust heaps of history.

Nice column Doc. Just the thing needed to stir up the natives, promote a discussion on current events, and make all our lives more interesting.

PTC Observer
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Dr. Awachie - West Point

Yes, Mr. Obama got a rousing standing ovation from the Cadet's when he made his speech, but the fact is Mr. Obama was correct, we don't need to use a hammer every time, but only when necessary. The question is does this President know the difference? You clearly think he does and time will tell whether you are right.

Mr. Obama's foreign and domestic policy blunders will be felt long after he has left office. He and others will attempt to blame others for the poor future results. Notwithstanding your arguments to the contrary Mr. Obama's jawboning hasn't done much to protect our interests at home or abroad. I doubt that his empty Guthrie inspired cliches will have any future impact as well unless they provide some amusement for our enemies.

There hasn't been any retreat by our foes and they seem to be quite energized to fulfill their promise to kill Americans. Which Dr. Awachie, they will from their Islamic Nation States and they will do so in no small part due to the inaction of the current administration. The wisdom to understand your enemy and to draw on this wisdom to construct a measured intelligent response seems to be lost on this inexperienced naive man and his equally incompetent staff.

We will pay for all this in the future with more blood and treasure thanks to them but we also have those blind elite apologists that support them to thank too, won't we Doctor?

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rousing standing ovation

Do you believe the cadets gave a rousing standing ovation of their own free will? No way. The cadets were briefed on exactly what to do.

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"rousing standing ovation"

Reporting said that less than 25% of the Cadet Corps participated in any sort of standing ovation---I don't call that 'rousing'.

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AtHomeGym - Scarasm

Doesn't translate well I suppose, should have put "tongue in cheek" on this statement.

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The Biden Doctrine-Come on in

Joe Biden is encouraging the "constant, unrelenting stream of immigrants. Not dribbling. Significant flows." Manufacturing jobs....

http://thehill.com/regulation/business/208857-biden-hails-constant-unrel...

Joe Biden also was the one who took the phone call from Prime Minister al-Maliki last week when all h$## broke loose with ISIS. We can be sure he made a deal that all will be happy with now.

Obama is enjoying the Thunderbird Heights area home in Rancho Mirage of his gay Spanish Ambassador James Costos (whose lover decorated the Obama quarters at the WH) this weekend.

We can all rest easier that Biden has taken the controls while Barry gets some downtime.

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moelarrycurly

Keep it up !! This attack on the POTUS will continue to keep the 'gay' vote in the Democrat column; the minority (Hispanics) vote in the Democrat column, the women vote in the Democratic column; etc., etc., etc. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - yours does not help the GOP for 2016 WH run. Thank you!

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Rumors of U.S. haven for families….

spur rise in illegal immigration.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-immigration-families-20140606-sto...

Who didn't see this coming????
………………………………………….
Update from the original post.

Oh, and why are they coming:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jun/12/el-salvador-honduras-med...

Davids mom
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Who didn't see this coming???

A Congress who set their sites on unseating Obama instead of looking into the crisis situations developing in our country. There has been an 'unseen' population of children from El Salvador and other countries south of Mexico in our country. Why have they been allowed to remain? IMO - funds received for school districts based on attendance; need for cheap labor; a system within legal immigrants that provides for them once they arrive.(families, etc.) 'WE' saw it coming - just used the influx until it became out of control and a good political issue against this sitting president.

Davids mom
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Congress - get to work!

Reform our immigration policy!!!!!!!!

Cyclist
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DM - Congress???

The way the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals thingy came about was via a change to the US Code of Federal Regulations "CFR" that was submitted by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). Congress had nothing to do with it.

Here's the Notice of Proposed Rule Making:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-04-02/html/2012-7698.htm

Perhaps the DHS should seek another change and revert the CFR back to the way it was. But they won't act unless their boss…The President… tells them to do so. So what are the odds of that happening?

Regarding your other question; it's all about stability which the Mideast certainly lacks. This ISIS group adds a whole new set of dynamics to the region which caused the market to react. Iraq is the 7th largest oil producing nation. Remove that oil from the market and the price of crude escalates. Now if the this group extends its "reach" and impacts say the House of Saud then things can get real interesting. Yes, I know we are just about self sufficent on oil but our trading partners in Europe are not so lucky. The portion of the Keystone pipeline bringing oil from Canada for refinement will offer some relief.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

Some reality. The Republican Party in California that supported Nixon, Reagan, and one year Bush - has been declared 'kaput'. Why? The loss of 'compassionate conservatism'. The picture of the protestors at the border appeals to some - but not to the majority of Americans. The Republican Party used to be the party of 'assimilation' for immigrants and 'others'. The ugliness in the rhetoric today is turning off the American electorate. If the Republican Party cannot 'change' - they will become an irrelevant third party. What can change this? A meaningful attempt in the House of our Congress to implement REFORM IN IMMIGRATION. If this does not become apparent to the electorate - the Grand Ole Party will continue on the road of decline - IMO. It will be a regional party.

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DM - California

Yup, I have noticed that change as well. Less conservatives more liberals and accompanying that change are more houses with iron bars on doors and windows in areas which that was unheard of in the past. Thank goodness I don't see that in my current neighborhood. How about yours?

I suspect both the Demos and Repubs are for immigration; however, the Repubs are for legal form of it. I'm not sure, however, of all the Demos.

Immigration Reform; really??? What pay a fine, learn English, get in line, all the above? As I said before, if they fail to comply with any "new" legislation are they deported thus breaking up families and sending that new crop of Dreamers back to where they came. When does this stop???

If they want my buy-in with any new immigration legislation how about this; the Demos, La Raza, and all the rest proclaim that they respect our nation's borders and immigration laws and will stop their incessant whining about how unfair it is. But we all know that won't happen because it means…. well it means the "R" word. No, not Republican but "Responsibility". That's right, take responsibility of your actions. Come here or stay illegally then you know the consequences.

BTW, earlier this week ABC did a story about one illegal and her child as they crossed the border and was processed and sent on their way to Philadelphia with instructions to show up immigration court. Well guess what, she did not show-up and the address she gave was….well lets just say she wasn't there. Gee, imagine that.

You talk about compassion; well I have compassion but that compassion is stretched thin by those that scam us all.

And the old conga line just keeps on going. We agree to disagree.

Davids mom
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Iron Bars in California

In LA; San Francisco - etc. Yes. Bel Air - yes. Pasadena, San Marino, etc. - no. IMO - the reason? The proximity to 'poor' areas with the unemployed/undereducated. Here in Fayetteville. Ten+ years with no iron bars! no break-ins, etc. Why didn't I stay in California? The economy. Retirement money buys more in FC Georgia.

Quote:

Immigration Reform; really??? What pay a fine, learn English, get in line, all the above? As I said before, if they fail to comply with any "new" legislation are they deported thus breaking up families and sending that new crop of Dreamers back to where they came. When does this stop???

The community colleges in California are filled with students from many different countries learning English . The majority? Hispanic and Asian. One of my office workers followed the present road to citizenship. It took her almost ten years, which included a stay in her home country of El Salvador. I admire her ethics - but understand those who don't go by the current law. If one decided to give up their citizenship for Canada or Israel - would ten years be required ? I don't know.

This is an issue that supersedes 'liberal/conservative' blame comments IMO. The GOP would have a bigger percentage of newly arrived Asian immigrants if the party's ideologues would work towards citizenship acquisition instead of using those in the shadows in order to make a bigger profit by paying meager wages.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

You are a knowledgeable - well-traveled American citizen. ISIS is not a NEW GROUP! If the ' EXISTING generals' of the Iraqi military had not all been pulled out (Rumsfeld) and allowed to continue under US SUPERVISION - maybe the division between the two religious groups in the region would not have developed as it is presently. (MAYBE) Any group of people who are divested of their standing in their own country - and not allowed to participate in government - rebel. That is a reality that has been documented since biblical times.

About that 'other thingy' - see my take on that in my 'See It Coming" post.

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DM - ISIS

Honestly, I don't really know enough about the background of ISIS to provide an in-depth comment. From what I read, the majority of the former Iraq army offiecers under Saddam were Sunni and were dismissed by the now Shiite government.

This schism goes back to the early days of Islam will continue to fester with no real end in sight. About the only time it was in-check was during the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Caliphate last from 1453 to just after the WWI.

Davids mom
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Cy

Like you, I don't know that much about the present ISIS . History has shown us that people who feel oppressed and/ or overlooked/ignored - tend to rebel. Peaceful inclusion seems to work better with mankind.

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Cy
Quote:

The portion of the Keystone pipeline bringing oil from Canada for refinement will offer some relief.

I understand - and agree. Just don't see that as an 'answer to the present threat in the Middle East. Thanks for sharing your point of view. I have to look into this Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals. I will check to see how that relates to the recent media coverage of the children crossing the border. Now Cy, you are a past resident of California - what is new about these kids crossing the border via coyotes? The LA School District has been dealing with this for decades.

YIKES - 26 PAGES!! I'LL GET BACK TO YOU

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DM - California and Keystone

Regarding what is new with kids crossing the border using coyotes; other than the demand for coyote services has increased because of the current policy, nothing. Of course in the past those that made it had to lay low other wise they face deportation. Nowadays, the scheme is to embrace them because, well because it's the "right" thing to do. (eyes rolling)

Now to Keystone. Several press reports have noted that the situation is very grave. Now we are looking at sending US troops as advisors to help Maliki. Heck, Iran is willing to join in the fray. (Remember when I said that drones alone cannot win against ISIS?? Well perhaps Iran's troops will fight that battle) The dynamics are changing hourly. We have to prepare for that.

Approving Keystone has to happen. A lot people are unaware of this fact but we at war with a whole region. So we need to prepare accordingly. Early on in WWII, the Germans sank tankers within sight of the US coast. The response was to build pipelines from refineries in Texas to the east coast. I think you would agree that submarines do have a difficult time in sinking pipelines. Likewise terrorist states will have a little more difficulty in disrupting Keystone operations. (Just remember the open border thingy is a liability) Keystone will not end the conflict in Iraq but we can't afford to wait and see what happens.

BTW, every time you fill up that jalopy or fly out of ATL the petroleum product used arrives here via a pipeline from Texas and Louisiana.

BTW II. Did you ever buy donuts from Randy's?

Davids mom
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Cy - donuts!
Quote:

BTW II. Did you ever buy donuts from Randy's?

Don't remember if it was called Randy's - but certainly member the donut. . .and yep - did frequent it sometimes.

I think today - people are aware that 'we' are at war with an entire region. Found this interesting article in the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/capital-journal-the-opportunities-for-oba...

Quote:

Regarding what is new with kids crossing the border using coyotes; other than the demand for coyote services has increased because of the current policy, nothing. Of course in the past those that made it had to lay low other wise they face deportation. Nowadays, the scheme is to embrace them because, well because it's the "right" thing to do. (eyes rolling)

In actuality - much has changed with the coyote trade. Those 'children' who were illegal and involved in 'gang' activity in the Los Angeles/San Diego regions have been deported - at higher numbers of deportation than ever recorded.

Many 'illegal' students in the LA area were unaware of their status until they wanted to apply for a drivers license (in my day - a hundred years ago LOL) Some joined the military service; some exceeded in college and with the help of relatives who were citizens, obtained citizenship. Many just changed their last name, dyed their hair, and purchased false documentation. (During the Cesar Chavez era - I was amazed at how many of my friends changed their 'anglo' sounding names to 'Hispanic' names) No one embraces the 'gang' element except our own criminal element. Just sharing a different perspective. Our experience does shape our perspective. This is not a simple right/wrong situation - when sending 'them' back is sending them to a country that they have no allegiance to; a country that has no desire to receive them; a country where they no longer have relatives, support, etc. . . it would be similar to sending a student with Irish heritage who had been here since he/she was 2 back to Ireland,

I agree, Keystone will probably be approved. . .with additional security strategies added to the proposal. Just didn't see the immediate connection between the illegal immigrant problem.

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