PTC Council bitterness a cancer spreading into county

The constant bitterness surrounding the City Council in Peachtree City looks to be a cancer spreading into the rest of the county.

Now that there is no [former mayor] to constantly berate, it appears Councilwoman Learnard is looking for other targets. Unfortunately for the Fayette Board of Commissioners, they appear to be the next target of her wrath.

The commissioners say a prayer before their meetings and I know Learnard had such acts of faith removed from their meetings.

The commissioners open up their meetings for citizens to speak on issues throughout the meeting without time limits and they don’t do that in Peachtree City.

The commissioners are winning awards for government collaboration and we are still wondering whether Learnard and her council can collaborate at all.

The insensitivity of the councilwoman’s remarks toward the county government seem to be political in nature and many of us don’t appreciate the important issues in Fayette County being used as pawns in someone’s personal chess game.

When the police and fire departments in Peachtree City were beset with sexual harassment cases, you didn’t see anyone from the Board of Commissioners publicly announcing in their meetings or writing letters in the newspapers saying the City Council should be embarrassed for not knowing all of that atrocious activity was going on under their very noses.

The facts are, as they have been clearly written in the local newspapers, that both the commission chairman and the county administrator told the development authority leadership on two occasions early in 2013 that the Board of Commissioners wanted to be able to review any deals related to tax abatements, so they could protect the taxpayers from any kind of harmful agreements. That’s just plain good old governance.

Regrettably, the development authority went ahead with several big deals and failed to tell the Board of Commissioners about it. That shouldn’t make the taxpayers in Fayette County feel comfortable at all.

The Board of Commissioners didn’t want to have to be babysitters, so they brought in some new personnel whom they thought would do the job and report to the county as requested. That’s called “accountability.”

Apparently, Learnard doesn’t believe the Board of Commissioners and the taxpayers are due any accountability.

It’s also clear that Learnard never called any of the county commissioners to discuss the development authority matter.

I have to agree with former Peachtree City Councilman George Dienhart when he stated that the City Council appointing Councilman Mike King to the county development authority instead of citizen appointee is a sign they want the same accountability that Learnard was criticizing the Board of Commissioners for seeking.

If Councilwoman Learnard had any confidence in the development authority they would have appointed a citizen to the spot. This is the pot calling the kettle black.

When the Board of Commissioners chose to file an appeal in the district voting lawsuit, Councilwoman Learnard wrote in the newspapers that they were insane.

Now this is odd because she was never part of any of the private executive session legal discussions held by the commissioners. She never called any of the commissioners to discuss the lawsuit. She called them insane, based on third-hand knowledge, at best. Why would anyone do that?

We have seen remarkably good things happening in our county over the past year or so. Please let’s not allow the bitter in-fighting within the City Council in Peachtree City to spill out to other jurisdictions because we need the positive momentum to continue.

Ginga Smithfield
Fayetteville, Ga.

johenry
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Why Kim Learnard and others need to pay attention!!!
johenry
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Hoping Councilwoman Learnard will stop the fighting now

Now that the election is over I hope that Mrs. Learnard will back off and get back to the business of the city.

It would be nice to have some harmony in Peachtree City again.

johenry
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I spoke too soon because now it's the wrath of Mike King

Here I was talking about harmony and then came Mr. King!!! I guess they take turns spewing their wrath.

The nastiness continues:

"... leaders don’t take credit, they give it. Its high time public officials understood this basic tenet of leadership, and it would seem to me that far too much credit is being taken for little to no involvement."

"... which makes all the vitriol coming from you and others of your ilk nothing more than political angst."

"Finally, your statement regarding the political infighting within my city council is both preposterous and capricious."

I don't think people are worried about the in-fighting as it's more about the city councils out-fighting!!! I agree with Mrs. Smithfield that it looks like the Peachtree City cancer is spreading outside the city limits. Can't blame it on Haddix now.

ginga1414
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jo, me too!

Hatred, bashing, and fighting gets very tiresome.

citizenmud
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Where's Harold?

I have seen a lot of posts with accomplishments Steve Brown has done. I have seen a lot of Brown bashing by Logsdon supporters (aka Brown dislikers). But, I haven't seen a single positive accomplishment Logsdon has done listed anywhere. Same goes for his ads. Leadership is a great buzzword. But so are these famous lines, "Where's the beef?" and "Where's Waldo?" On a positive note, please tell me why I should vote for Logsdon based on his past performance or his positions on current subjects and his plans to address them. And not just, 'Because he is better than Brown,' or 'Brown is bad.' Where's the Harold?

ginga1414
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What Steve Brown has done for Fayete County

I agree with suggarfoot.

He stood up for the citizens of this county when former commission chairman Smith was trying to take away the citizens' opportunity to speak during the public comment portion of commission meetings. By the way, his opponent, Harold Logsdon is a good friend and supporter of Mr. Smith's.

In the past, various county board positions had been filled by commissioners appointing their friends and relatives to those positions. In fact, one former commissioner had his cousin appointed to the Elections Board under the pretense that the appointee was a fellow church member. Now, that process is conducted in a very professional manner. Steve Brown said that candidates for those positions should submit a resume. That process has resulted in many highly qualified people serving our community.

Steve Brown exposed the fact that the West Fayetteville Bypass would not meet Federal and State standards for funding.

He and the new commissioners stopped Phase III of the Bypass.

He has received an award for his work in improving ethics in government.

As a public servant, Steve Brown traveled throughout the state and region exposing the Regional T-SPLOST for subsidizing MARTA.

He has opened up the commission meetings to the public's participation like no other commissioner.

When our Water Department had been operating under much less than adequate management and had been delivering brown smelly water to the citizens, Steve Brown put the Water Department under new management and hired the number one engineering company in the country to solve the engineering problems associated with that brown smelly water.

When he and the new commissioners inherited the decades old problem of neglected and crumbling storm water drains, they embraced that problem. Steve said, "The storm water culverts are our problem." That is a problem that previous commissions had kicked down the road until roadways were in danger of collapsing. School buses and emergency vehicles could not travel those roadways, putting lives in danger.

Steve and our new commissioners held unheard of town hall meetings so that all citizens could voice their concerns and solutions to our State mandated storm water issue.

He has established working relationships with adjoining counties to solve mutual problems.

He continually stands up for county issues with the Atlanta Regional Commission. The ARC disperses Federal funds to all the regional counties. Steve has worked with the ARC to secure funding for the much needed Hwy. 74/I-85 interchange. That interchange will greatly help Peachtree City and Fayette County commuters drive time.

Steve Brown loves Fayette County and has proven his dedication to her citizens.

suggarfoot
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who is protecting your rights while you work?

I've said this a MILLION TIMES....most people are so busy they don't have TIME to watch out for their rights. It isn't they don't care about elections...it is just that they are worked to death to make a living and just want to come home and tune everything out.

That is when the sleaze creeps in.

You have only one vote.

The lobbyiest creep in..to circumvent your one vote you get for all the taxes you pay.

ONE VOTE...

Then there are the big buck developers...

you don't have time to go to rezoning meetings...you find out only after the vote.

You are screwed!!!!

I can say that I live in Tyrone, Steve Brown, lives in Peachtree City, and wasn't running for any office when he helped not only me, but others in Tyrone, screwed by the developers.

Why?

Because it was the right thing to do.

I was a single Mother working 12 hours to pay the bills, I didn't have time to go to rezoning meetings and it wasn't like they put the signs out there bright and bold.

Before I knew it, my property was ruined.

Who was on my side when my property was ruined? Steve. I was a little no body. But I mattered....to Steve.
He cared...
he helped...

We are all little no bodies that don't matter to big bucks. We are in the way.
To Steve we are not.

When Steve ran the last time, I remember putting his signs out that he could afford.....and seeing the big flat beds unload the signs of the big boys that ran against him. Our signs, (his) were pulled up in the night. The people putting out the signs for the opposing group brought in BIG signs that cost a fortune and weighted a ton. Funny how the considered the option of pulling up..? Could they have pulled up Steve's?

Steve Brown is for the little guy, he was for me when I couldn't help myself.

Steve is there for all of us.

He is a man among men, I am so proud, and touched to know him.

Vote for someone who sees you as a person and will help you.

johenry
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Sugarfoot hit the bullseye on Steve Brown!!!

I was one of those people Steve Brown rescued. He had nothing to gain from helping me because I didn't have a dime but he did it because he really cares about the people.

I wouldn't be able to live in my house today if it weren't for Steve Brown and that's no exaggeration!!!

A lot of these people like Sugarfoot, Ginga1414 and me pull so hard for Brown because we know first hand how he defends the little people and keeps the special interest people in line.

Steve Brown isn't going to do the nasty dirty politics and he'll stand up to the bad guys. When Commissioner Barlow challenged him on removing the water system director Brown said here's where I stand and if you don't like it you can push me out. But he won't back down when he's right.

Harold Logsdon was the special interest's best friend and he also looked out for his own interest above the people's.

johenry
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G-Man and those "little people"

G-Man my husband died years ago. The company he worked for was sold off and it later went bankrupt and he lost his entire pension after 30 years of employment. It was a very bad break and when he died I had to try to keep our house up and pay the bills on my social security check.

This has happened to many.

When I desperately needed a helping hand and NOBODY would help me but Steve Brown. I am still in the house thanks to him. He also helped a man who was paraplegic (sp?) stay in his house.

Go look at Gigna1414 posts and see who fought to help the old people living near the West Fayetteville Bypass when the county government was laughing at them.

If you think for a minute that Harold Logsdon would even think about helping people like us without money and influence you're serious mistaken. He did a lot of self serving things when he was mayor.

suggarfoot
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Steve is a good man

And all us unnamed "little people" wish we were in his voting district.

G-Man
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I applaud SB

But Logsdon has helped the little people as well. There are countless stories out there about him. Unfortunately thy don't live in the PTC district. Again I'm happy and glad you got the help you did.

I will not continue this conversation about what he did out of respect for you. OK. Take care.

Do yourself a favor and vote Logsdon.

G-Man
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johenry, I'm glad he helped you out.

Please explain what and who the little people are? I confused. I thought these politicians where supposed to help all the people in the county. Huh, Brown helps the little people. Oh he was man of the year one time and he also got his neighbor to elect him to have the most improved yard in the neighborhood, well something like that. Brown is full of ballyhoo. He would embarrass his own county employees if it benefits him.

I'm glad he helped you out but trust me there was a motive involved. Whatever he does there is a reason and before he does anything he makes sure the Citizen is notified so they can do a photo op of him and the rest of the commissioners.

Theprez
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Most improved yard?

Where did that come from? And while we are at it I live in the neighborhood and have never heard of a campaign for most improved yard, so explain this one G-Man

upanatom
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Anyone who lives

in Fayette County has a stake in who our commissioners are. It doesn't matter which district chooses the commissioner. All Fayette citizens pay taxes and the decisions that are made by our commissioners affect all of us.

Even though Steve Brown is from Peachtree City, he has served the entire county extremely well as our commissioner.

Now that we have district voting, some folks feel that their candidate will only serve their district.

Steve Brown fought long and hard to ensure that all citizens would have a voice with the commission.

Mudcat has asked, "Who cares about what you think, Ginger?" It is quite obvious who cares, mudcat. Steve Brown cares what you think. He cares what all the other citizens in Fayette County think, and he cares what Ginger thinks. However, very few Fayette Citizens know what Harold Logsdon thinks because he hasn't seen fit to speak to anyone except the special interest group that comprises his district.

It is very sad that a hate group will try to disenfranchise four districts in our county. That group seems to think that their district will receive preferential treatment when it comes to the BOC. Hopefully, they will vote for the person who will represent all of Fayette Co.

is that a fact
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Steve Brown

Mudcat, you described Steve Brown to a tee. He is loyal, trustworthy, and worthy to be elected again to represent not only PTC but the county as a whole and he also represent us in a very diplomatic way to Atlanta.

Tomorrow is the day when the citizens who did not vote early will finalize the vote and put the icing on the cake. I do pray the citizens will consider all the accomplishments Mr. Brown has done and give him a vote of confidence.

PLEASE GO VOTE and if you need a ride call someone to take you to the poll. Don't be one who says my vote won't count because IT DOES.

johenry
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"Most of us" now that's funny!!!

By "most of us" Nuk means the four negative blogging trolls on this web site. You've got to take that in consideration.

The funniest part is how they throw out accusations at Steve Brown trying to make him fall while they keep their guy Harold Logsdon hidden in the shadows.

It's clear that they can't afford to have Logsdon's record made public. It's not pretty.

Let me be a Nuk for a minute and say "most of us" like Brown because he's not afraid to answer the tough questions and has a great record on the county commission that Logsdon can't touch. Best of all Brown never set up a for-profit business with the City Manager while he was mayor like Logsdon did.

Brown never went on a lavish all-expense paid trip to Asia funded by a company that received significant financial and tax incentives like Logsdon did.

Logsdon would not make the necessary budget corrections to protect the city but Brown ended deficit spending in the county in one year.

Logsdon sued a sitting mayor at taxpayer expense for a comment the mayor made in an email to an employee that had no public exposure. Brown is actually saving taxpayers funds.

Mr. Logsdon keeps saying he brought the satellite campus for Clayton State University to Peachtree City but the City Council when Brown was mayor attracted and furnished the satellite campus for Clayton State and it is clearly written in the March 21, 2002 meeting minutes.

And here's what you'll get with Logsdon on the county commission. We know because Logsdon publicly supported Brown's predecessor, Jack Smith, who engaged in deficit spending, who refused to build the number one priority project in our SPLOST (EFB), who berated citizens at commission meetings, who voted to include us into a massively expensive regional mass transit plan that cost significantly more than the state’s entire budget – including projects in Fayette County that he lied about, who’s solution for the interchange at Hwy 74 and I-85 was to abolish it and move it to Hwy 92.

There's a huge difference between the candidates that "most of us" clearly see.

By the way the definition for internet troll is = In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

This sense of the word troll and its associated verb trolling are associated with Internet discourse, but have been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment.

You'll see Nuk, Robert Morgan and mrobinson's pictures by the definition.

is that a fact
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Steve Brown

Mudcat, you described Steve Brown to a tee. He is loyal, trustworthy, and worthy to be elected again to represent not only PTC but the county as a whole and he also represent us in a very diplomatic way to Atlanta.

Tomorrow is the day when the citizens who did not vote early will finalize the vote and put the icing on the cake. I do pray the citizens will consider all the accomplishments Mr. Brown has done and give him a vote of confidence.

PLEASE GO VOTE and if you need a ride call someone to take you to the poll. Don't be one who says my vote won't count because IT DOES.

mudcat
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Who cares about what you think, Ginger?

You don't even live in Peachtree City, so you can't vote for Steve Brown - I mean you do know that don't you? Wouldn't want you to be disappointed tomorrow. Steve Brown is not getting any votes from my neighborhood and very few from his neighborhood. We are electing a representative from Peachtree City to serve on county commission - and not as chairman, either. We don't want a caped crusader traveling the state or even to Atlanta embarrassing us with childish antics.
Our representative should be
Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.
and an honest Republican and an all around good Scout. Most of us have decided on Mr. Logsdon and we would appreciate it if you stayed out of it.

Mr. Oddo will do quite well as the commission chair and as our representative to ARC and Mr. Rapson will take care of the dirty water - as he did before.

johenry
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Ginger isn't an internet troll like Nuk

That's why we care about what she thinks.

johenry
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Sad mrobinson acting like a spoiled toddler!!!

mrobinson you need to stop acting like a four year old having a tantrum. We all know you hate Steve Brown. You've made that really really really clear!!!

There's no doubt that Brown and the new commissioners stopped deficit spending in the county government. Stop whining.

Who would be those developers be asking for annexation and when did they donate???

There's no doubt that Brown and the new commissioners opposed the district voting and fought the NAACP lawsuit and appealed the judge's decision. Stop whining.

How would you know if Steve Brown is trying to parlay his commission chairmanship to eventual State office??? You obviously hate the guy, so are you telling us you are having close personal conversations with him about his future??? Stop acting like a preschooler!

mrobinson I think we have clearly seen Brown's positions in action on deficit spending and district voting in the county, so what has your boy Logsdon done on either??? Well he does absolutely nothing until he decides to run for office and that's for sure. He was a big deficit spender as mayor and that's for sure too. If you want to talk results, your boy is a BIG loser. In fact the voters of Peachtree City just voted him down by a large margin against Mayor Fleisch about five months ago.

Logsdon's stupid lawsuit against Don Haddix was a stroke of genius especially the part about we taxpayers covering the bill!!! Maybe you're attracted to Logsdon because he acts like a toddler too.

Your a hypocrite mrobinson!!! Get over it!

Steve Brown
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"Hatred" is pretty accurate, Mrobinson

I think a lot of the bloggers who challenge you, Mrobinson, on this site are pretty insightful. I believe its true that Mrobinson and the other Logsdon supporters cannot come up with valid reason to support Logsdon, so it is throw as much mud at Steve Brown as possible and see if it sticks.

Mrobinson would rather see Democrats favoring mass transit in a decision making capacity in Fayette . That is his prerogative and I pray the voters go the other way.

Mrobinson, anyone who has read your negative obsessive posts knows you hate the tea party. Most would agree that your definition of "balance, compromise, moderation and professionalism" means Democrats in charge. We have that already in Fulton, Clayton, DeKalb and City of Atlanta. I am wondering why you do not chose to live in one of those counties.

Go ask the county administrator to email the spreddsheet to you on the $144 million figure (combined BOC, BOE and city). I you are unwilling to do that, then we cannot help you.

Mrobinson, none of the readers are so foolish as to think that local government actions can be taken without a majority vote (although President Obama is doing that with executive orders at the federal level).

Mrobinson, we spent EXCESS fund balance when I was PTC mayor - that is far different from deficit spending. When I left the mayor's office, PTC had a higher fund balance than at any other time in the city's history. Later, then-Mayor Logsdon produced a negative number.

On the "sights set on higher office" comment, you know very little about anything I think about, much less future decisions I have yet to ponder or make.

I understand why you hate the tea party as your views are a lot more liberal. I offer no apologies for being a conservative Republican. If the citizens of Fayette County want a more liberal government, they can vote for your guy Harold Logsdon.

I did accept a campaign contribution from a developer, Doug McMurrain, who was a resident of FAYETTE COUNTY at the time (our kids both went to the same school). Doug and I were political enemies at first, but later he made some major concessions that really helped the appearance and path infrastructure on Highway 54-West. Doug had stated at a council meeting that I had helped him build one of his best projects. And, he was NOT building or annexing anything when he sent the check.

The City's traffic engineering firm did send a check around the date of the run-off with a note saying "We enjoyed working with you and we wish you the best in your future endeavors." It was pretty clear I was not going to win in the run-off and they knew that.

Mrobinson refers to accountability in government as "politically-based punitive actions" and I make no apologies for holding the water utility and development authority accountable.

And they still cannot tell you why they want you to vote for Logsdon.

johenry
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Fayette County Voters Guide that Logsdon is hiding from you

The four or five hate bloggers try to keep starting fires all over place by making crude comments and accusations about Steve Brown so you won't remember his accomplishments.

1. Brown brought Clayton State to Fayette and the county announced a new four year college campus coming to Fayetteville. Brown cares about our children and grandchildren. He volunteers in the schools. Logsdon does none of that.

2. The traffic problems at Highway 74 and I-85 are being solved because Brown got the money from the state to make changes to the bridges and ramps. Logsdon hasn't ever done a darn thing about this problem. Logsdon was consistently frustrated with GDOT.

3. Brown put a halt to deficit spending in the county government. Logsdon publicly supported the old crowd who were doing the deficit spending.

4. Brown took the water problems seriously and replaced the top management and engineers. Logsdon is silent but we do know that he set up a for profit business with the city manager when he was mayor (ask hate blogger mrobinson).

5. Brown ended phase three of the West Fayetteville Bypass. Logsdon never spoke one word of complaint against the bypass and supported the old crowd who were funding it.

6. Brown created the most open and transparent government Fayette has ever seen. Logsdon put time limits on speech in Peachtree City. Logsdon also sued a a member of the city council for complaining he was coming to meetings under the influence of alcohol.

7. Brown helped us get the biggest economic development project in Fayette history in Pinewood Studios. The Pinewood Studios development opened the door to more than 3,000 jobs and a potential economic impact of more than $370 million per year. It earned the 2013 Large Deal of the Year from the Georgia Economic Developers Association. It also earned the Atlanta Regional Commission’s CREATE Award for Regional Prosperity and Economic Development. Logsdon not so good.

8. Brown won a 2013 award from non-partisan Common Cause Georgia for his support of ethics reform. Logsdon was an ethical nightmare and he accepted luxury gifts of expensive air travel, luxury accommodations and tours to Asia from a company he gave financial tax incentives to. That’s just plain wrong.

9. Brown served as School Council President and PTO President of J.C. Booth Middle School. Brown was also a long-time youth girls’ soccer coach. Logsdon did little to nothing for our children and grandchildren.

10. Brown is the only elected official in Fayette County who meets all the certification criteria for both the Georgia Municipal Association and the Association of County Commissioners of Georgia along with certification in economic development. Logsdon is not.

11. Brown's supporters consistently cite his accomplishments. Logsdon's supporters try to hide his record and sling mud at Brown.

12. Brown has the courage to do what is right. Go read the letter "thing-about-brown-he’s-most-often-right" and you'll see Brown stands for what's right for his citizens. Logsdon defends the crooks and the old crowd politicians who take advantage of us.

There's a big difference in this race. Brown's record on the county commission is outstanding and far better than anything Logsdon has ever done.

mrobinson_ptc
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Storytime with Steve

Oh. My. You spend WAY too much time caring about this one little opinion. Methinks thou doth protest too much! The bloggers who challenge me have clear agendas that support you and the tea party express, so there's no surprise you think them "insightful".

Steve Brown, when confronted by the facts, hides behind obfuscation.

Steve Brown, it could be reasonably construed by those with access to the facts, may be manufacturing positions.

Go ask the county administrator to email the spreddsheet to you on the $144 million figure (combined BOC, BOE and city). I you are unwilling to do that, then we cannot help you.

Laughable. Won't provide the justification to defend the number himself. It's so simple - have Rapson post that sheet on the County's website, Mr. Open Government.

Mrobinson, we spent EXCESS fund balance when I was PTC mayor - that is far different from deficit spending. When I left the mayor's office, PTC had a higher fund balance than at any other time in the city's history. Later, then-Mayor Logsdon produced a negative number.

Oh yes, Steve. A "negative number", making it sound like Peachtree City was calling the bank to get a loan to continue operations, like you insinuated Fayette County was doing with this deficit spending nonsense. Neither statement is true at all, but please, continue to blur the focus. Justify your negative number comment. My facts are in black and white - you engage in deficit spending, by your definition, when you have more in expenses than you do in revenues. While you were mayor of Peachtree City, PTC's Council approved budgets that did just that, just like Fayette County did. I don't recall seeing Peachtree City apply for continuation loans, or whatever the "nuclear" option is when you simply can't pay for what you have.

Well, I think it's abundantly clear that you don't compromise or apologize for your despotic "accountability". I keep saying, over and over and over (obsessive? Well, when it comes to this, yup!), that I want to see a more professional candidate in office. On the "issues", you guys are probably the same. I don't smell the stench of tea over Logsdon; I do over you, and any government that is 100% controlled by any one faction (be it Democrat, Republican, Tea Party, Green Party, The-Rent-Is-Too-Darn-High Party, or whatever) is not truly representative of the people. You have the gall to suggest to me I should move? I'm a 30+ year citizen of Fayette County, sir, please respect my opinions. This is my home; I grew up here, and I have no intention of leaving. There's rural character in parts of your former home county of Gwinnett, perhaps if you don't believe there should be balance and moderation in government, you can go form a government up there.

I don't campaign for Logsdon; it's not my job to promote why he is the better candidate. What I'm doing is pointing the mirror back at you to point out the faults as I see them in you. Again, I am disgusted by how you govern, not the content of your government.

Good luck, God Bless, and move past me, already. My voice reflects my views; if others agree, well that's cool. If they don't, that's cool too.

As the campaign donor wrote to you, I "wish you well in your future endeavors."

NUK_1
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Brown: That's quite a spin on reality.

Mrobinson, we spent EXCESS fund balance when I was PTC mayor - that is far different from deficit spending. When I left the mayor's office, PTC had a higher fund balance than at any other time in the city's history. Later, then-Mayor Logsdon produced a negative number.

You spent an "excess fund balance" because "YOUR" Council headed by Steve Rapson's advocacy of lowering the reserve requirements for PTC was adopted, and then all declared victory and spent the difference between what it was when you started and then the "oh, this is enough reserves....... that we just lowered in order to spend the money."

That is pure politician speak for deficit spending. You lowered the reserve requirements in order to have "free money" to spend and years later claim it to be "excess reserve funds?" Yeah, your acolytes will believe that but it's BS.

mrobinson_ptc
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Not about hate, about disgust.

I don't hate Steve Brown. He has passion. I'm sure he cares about his family, and he makes a fine community organizer. I just don't want him in a decision making capacity in any government that affects my life. I'm disgusted by the approach.

I'd love to re-present the statistics that prove that Steve Brown also deficit spent while Mayor of Peachtree City, and that Steve Brown was a BIG loser when trying to run for state office and when he tried to gain reelection to the PTC Mayor spot...but I'm wasting my time.

I don't even hate the tea party express. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion, but I just don't want it to be what drives decisions where I live. I want balance, compromise, moderation and professionalism.

Sadly, that doesn't exist here.

For those who don't enjoy what I post, or in what volumes, I can simply be silenced by someone accurately, and with specific, verifiable detail that is available for all to see here on this site, refuting my points. If you can do that, and prove what I say is inaccurate, I'll stop posting again...until the next time I see things that I think aren't true.

So...prove me wrong, if you can!

--$144 million figure - someone show the specific, verifiable amounts that brought that "magic number" up

--Steve Brown solely doing anything - show me something where Steve Brown was the only person who made an entire process go into action based on his campaign platforms. That means it didn't take a commission vote, a council vote, or anybody else to make it happen.

--Steve Brown participated in deficit spending during his term as PTC Mayor.

--Steve Brown has his sights set on higher office

--Steve Brown is aligned directly with a special interest group, the Fayette County Issues Tea Party, and flaunts it (he even used taxpayer money to do so!).

--Steve Brown accepted campaign donations from a developer (Doug McMurrain with RAM Development) actively working in Peachtree City. McMurrain was not a Peachtree City resident at the time. Brown also accepted donations from the City's traffic engineering firm at the time.

http://archive.thecitizen.com/node/2352.html

--Steve Brown takes politically-based punitive actions against professionals and volunteers who do not agree with his directions on items (Development Authorities, City and County Attorneys, Planning Professionals)

--Steve Brown uses the media to promote Steve Brown's agenda for the benefit of Steve Brown's political career.

All I seek to do here is present a mirror to show the whole story on the incumbent, for those who may not understand or remember history.

No hypocrisy here, in my opinion - just another view.

suggarfoot
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We are lucky to have Steve Brown

There is no doubt he is a strong man who has stood up for us on many occasions. I'm proud to vote for him and proud to know him.

mudcat
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$1,000 from Doug McMurrain? The RAM Development skunk?

My my, I did not know that. That guy and his partner Vince something did more to screw up Peachtree City's west side than anyone else. The principled anti-developer Brown should return that campaign contribution. I sure don't want my representative on county commission beholding to RAM Development. Geeesh!

johenry
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Ginga1414

You know better. mrobinson is just throwing stuff out there to see if anyone will buy it.

They'll never tell you that on the number issue Harold Logsdon ran on for mayor being the TDK Extension that he ended up having to say that Steve Brown had been right all along. Then Logsdon started taking all kinds of government goodies. And he flushed the city's budget down the toilet. After that Logsdon had to start fighting allegations he was coming to city meetings intoxicated. Sad!!!

mudcat
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Actually Brown admitted the $1,000 from RAM

It is true and it appeared on his disclosure form.

Logsdon was not alleged to have been intoxicated, he was accused of being "part drunk". Whether that means he was part way to being fully drunk or just drunk part of the time, we don't know. We do know that the accuser was slapped down and forced to make a damage payment for slander and apologize, so why bring that up now?

Don't forget to vote. Maybe you can do a write-in somewhere for your Brown hero. Maybe Governor.

mrobinson_ptc
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Bitterness = two comments...

Seriously? Constant bitterness? It's a war, folks! Just ask the Brown Dream Team - they'll be out on the streets today! Pull over and ask them some questions:

Ask them if Steve Brown ever led a council that engaged in deficit spending - their answer should be yes.

Ask them if Steve Brown ever accepted campaign funding from developers in ongoing annexation talks - their answer should be yes.

Ask them if Steve Brown ever supported district voting - their answer should be yes.

Ask them if Steve Brown is trying to parlay his commission chairmanship to eventual State office - their answer should be yes.

He'll tell you what you want to hear, then change his position to match the winds blowing....but he'll tell you his issues are firm.

He'll talk about results - see, some of us do look at results. We looked at his results, and we see nothing more than a professional politician pandering to special interest agenda. He'll just call them "concerned citizens."

Vote your conscience, those in District 3. I've voted for the person I think is the most professional choice.

ginga1414
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mudkitty

Where did you get your information about Lynn Westmoreland's retirement?

johenry
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Another hater in Mudcat

Mudcat and mrobinson make it up as they go!!!

But here are some facts that we know are really facts:

Logsdon set up a for-profit business with the City Manager while he was mayor. That's a fact!

Logsdon went on a lavish all-expense paid trip to Asia funded by a company that received significant financial and tax incentives. That's a big old fact!

Logsdon would not make the necessary budget corrections to protect the city. That's a painful fact!

Logsdon sued a sitting mayor at taxpayer expense for a comment the mayor made in an email to an employee that had no public exposure. That's an "I can't believe how foolish he is" fact!

Logsdon keeps saying he brought the satellite campus for Clayton State University to Peachtree City. The FACT is the City Council when Steve Brown was mayor attracted and furnished the satellite campus for Clayton State and it is written in the March 21, 2002 meeting minutes!!!

Logsdon publicly supported Brown's predecessor Jack Smith who engaged in deficit spending, refused to build the number one priority project in our SPLOST (EFB), berated citizens at commission meetings, who voted to include us into a massively expensive regional mass transit plan that cost significantly more than the state’s entire budget – including projects in Fayette County that he lied about, who’s solution for the interchange at Hwy 74 and I-85 was to abolish it and move it to Hwy 92.

Now these are the FACTS Mudcat and mrobinson. Stop being internet trolls!!!

mudcat
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I think calling people names like hater is immature

I don't really hate anyone, not even the narscissitic fools that insist on posting their replies on top instead of underneath as designed. Steve Brown does this, you do this and it seems as if the 2 or 3 Brown supporters/aliases do this, but I don't hate any of you. I simply hate what you are doing.

And you are free to support Brown. I know he has people like you (not a resident of PTC or District 3) and Ross and Bost bamboozled and that's fine. Just keep beating that drum and try to throw mud at Logsdon if that entertains you. For myself and my neighbors, we will vote for Mr. Logsdon because we want him to represent us at county commission much more than the other two guys who are running. He's our rep, we get to vote for him and you don't.

mrobinson_ptc
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An advantage to folks not replying in proper places...

...may appear evident in the recent comments list.

mudcat
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You know, the state office thing should be another reason

Another reason to vote no for Brown.
As I point out endlessly - because it is true, we are just electing our representative from PTC to serve on the Fayette County Commission, nothing more. Term is 4 years and I am certain that in 2 years Lynn Westmoreland will retire and Matt Ramsey will run for his seat in Congress and hopefully win, leaving a State Rep. position open that will be impossible for Steve Brown to ignore. And since we will know about all this a year ahead of time, do you want our representative quitting mid-term and paying attention to his own career for a year before that?

I know he will pledge to finish his full term, I know. Sure.

ginga1414
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mrobinson, the telephone?

You seemed to have forgotten that Commissioner Brown and County Administrator Rapson did call the FCDA and Matt Forshee several times.

It was very clear that the ball was then in the FCDA's court.

If you or other Brown naysayers had gotten wind of how many conversations he and Rapson initiated with the FCDA concerning the tax breaks, you would be accusing him of harassment.

Mr. Brown and Mr. Rapson did their jobs very admirably by repeatedly asking for the abatement information from Forshee. The FCDA knew that Brown and Rapson are constantly looking out for Fayette taxpayers and keeping the county coffers full. Is that the reason Forshee pushed the abatement through without notifying Brown and Rapson?

Now, you are probably going to say that Forshee and the FCDA are not required to provide Brown and Rapson with the tax break information.

It is true that the BOC does not have the power to stop the abatement. However, the information would have given the BOC and Rapson a heads up with budget planning.

Forshee knew that Brown and Rapson were concerned with how the abatement would affect the county budget. He also knew that the Pinewood development would be a huge feather in his cap. Perhaps Forshee already had plans to move onward and upward, and Pinewood would look oh, so good on a resume.

Ms. Learnard is the one who saw an opportunity to cause a political hurricane in a tea cup, and that exactly what she did. She seized an opportunity to promote Harold Logsdon, her candidate, and cause controversy for the current administration.

johenry
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Neil

There was an article in the Citizen where Mr. Forshee admitted there were some communication problems. I remember that.

Steve Brown
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Matt's comments

I thought Matt Forshee was very gracious and an upstanding person in his comments. I am sorry that another elected official decided to go public and drag the issue through the mud with name-calling and the like.

I wish Matt the best in his future endeavors.

johenry
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Read the letter above all these posts mrobinson!!!

Yes there was a lot of bitterness coming from the city council and yes it was name calling from Kim Learnard!!!

That's not being transparent that's being downright mean!!!

mrobinson_ptc
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Ha! Transparency my bottom!

...I am sorry that another elected official decided to go public

Transparent government, indeed, Steve. Which is it? Openness or secrecy? You seem to want transparency when it's you in charge, but when others talk, they "go public and drag the issue through the mud" and start a, in your words, "war with the commission" because they have the audacity to criticize the Chair?

I'm giggling at the duplicity!

Oh, and it looks like new "negative bloggers" are coming on....perhaps there are more than the "four or five". It's all a conspiracy, right?

We'll see how it plays out - good luck to all!

And I think many will agree with the following old adage from Mrs. Goose, Her Book by Maurice Spitzer - it's fits to the politics here (and even to me!):

It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt of it.

mrobinson_ptc
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Well...not quite...

Asked if the county and city knew about the Pinewood bonds prior to their issuance in December, Forshee said, “I would like to think so, but I can’t prove to you that they did. If we have made a mistake as far as communicating that falls fully on me. And I take responsibility for that.”

http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/04-09-2014/abc%E2%80%99s-bond-communi...

Steve Brown
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Neil

I can assure you that we were after internal controls. We had personal meetings and made our desires very clear.

NeilSullivan
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Jo Henry Those who do not learn doom the tax payer

I really do not care about blame. My question is more looking toward process. If FCDA does not return calls we... If FCDA does not disclose.... I find many would prefer to take to a phone or a coffee and not in something that can be retained or forwarded. I beleive in the opposite, I may not always be right or agree but by putting it in writing at least we know what when who and how. Many have told me the why for me is a mystery.

So as a CPA, my question is about internal control on our $.

n

Steve Brown
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Oh my Goodness, Mrobinson

OK, let's talk. Your "artificial" talk is nonsense.

If taxpayers stopped paying property taxes, we put liens on their property and get it on the back end. It happens all the time.

Correct, the Development Authority had no mandate to tell the Board of Commissioners about their actions. HOWEVER, we fund the authority's entire budget and we appoint the authority members, so the Board of Commissioners expects them to work with the county in creating plans that are in the best interests of the taxpayers. If that does not work, we find someone else as we have fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers.

No, they did not do exactly what they are supposed to do, as we asked them to report any deals to us prior to enactment. The $144 million is BOC, BOE and City. Email the County Administrator for the spreadsheet and he will be happy to send you a copy.

Yes, every government budget in Georgia is balanced every year, by state law, and then-Mayor Logsdon was engaged in "deficit spending." Deficit spending, expenses greater than revenue, will eventually crash the system. Logson ally, Jack Smith, engaged in deficit spending, not funding future capital costs, and was leading us off a cliff, a point more subtlety acknowledged by our auditors.

The City of Atlanta is $2 billion in the red on pension payments, but they had a "balanced" budget. I think we would all agree they have significant problems.

Very true, Mrobinson, it took a majority vote to engage in the deficit spending, but the others are not running for election, just Logsdon.

What did Brown do on City Council? Actually, Mrobinson, I raised taxes the first year to make up for the addition of around 16 new unfunded employees added by the prior council and that council also rolled the millage rate BACKWARD in addition to adding the expenditures. Go ask Paul Salvatore.

After we made up for the prior council, we managed spending. To his credit, then-Mayor Bob Lenox denounced adding expenses and cutting the revenue, but the majority voted against him. That is in the meeting minutes.

When my council left, the city had some of the best fund balances in its history.

Mrobinson, I am worried about your experience and exposure to how government works. Fayette County will end FY 2014 with a surplus.

You are getting into telling those half-truths again.

ginga1414
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mrobinson, You have asked me a question

However, you have not provided enough information for me to answer your question.

You have provided figures and links to two budgets that you attribute to Steve Brown's tenure as PTC mayor

You have not provided a link to the budget that you say came under Mr. Logsdon's tenure as PTC mayor.

Also, Upanatom raises some interesting questions about the years you didn't provide.

mrobinson_ptc
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Let me help you with that...

1. My question was "With the statistics I have presented above, would you agree that Steve Brown participated in deficit spending while Mayor of Peachtree City?" I gave you data for that. Posting your reply below that would give other readers context, but your computer keeps acting up.

Who gives two cute puppies what Harold Logsdon did when the question was what did Steve Brown do, data was provided, and you try to shift the argument? Good try - answer the question "Yes, Steve Brown participated in deficit spending while Mayor of Peachtree City."

2. To help you, here's the link to all of the budgets on Peachtree City's website:

http://www.peachtree-city.org/DocumentCenter/Index/11

3. Read my response to upanatom to see the other years. If you'd like complete links, here ya go. Look for the phrase "surplus carryover" - that means they took money from savings. Remember fiscal years in PTC start in October:

Brown's Term as Mayor:
FY2003 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/fy03bud.pdf
In 2003, it appears that PTC was going to surplus in $538,491. See PDF page 7.

FY2004 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/04bud.pdf
Page 15. Oops, PTC didn't meet it's surplus, in fact, it looks like they had to use $510,346 and budgets to use $658,731 in FY2004.

FY2005 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/2005budget.pdf

FY2006 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/2006budget.pdf

Logsdon's Term as Mayor:

FY2007 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/budget2007final2.pdf

FY2008 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/2008budget_document.pdf

FY2009 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/2009fulldocument.PDF

FY2010 - http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/2010%20budget%20document%20...

Come back anytime! I'm going to go get some fresh air.

mrobinson_ptc
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You speak out of both sides of your mouth, Steve...

Where to begin?

In one sentence, you say "it took a majority vote" to engage in deficit spending, then you say "I raised taxes". Which is it, a majority vote or just one person? And the development authority had no mandate, but didn't do what they are supposed to do? The county funds MOST of the expenses (not all, PTC puts in $75K) and selects SOME of the board members, true...but we see what happens when someone doesn't get their way (again).

Liens aren't 100% guarantees of funds. How much tax revenue gets charged off each year? How long can it take to get money from a lien - sometimes many years, right? Again, you estimate and budget - it's sophisticated guess work based on projections, and I do know that to be true. Budgets are "finessed" each year - the concept of "planned savings" is well known to those immersed in PTC's budget processes.

You also engaged in deficit spending, so please spare me your "best fund balances" song and dance. $8 million dollars approved use of excess fund balance in FY2005 is not exactly justifying your point.

FY2005 Approved Budget
http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/2005budget.pdf
Page 33 of the PDF. You're the mayor of record.

Revenues = $28,582,020
Expenses = $37,428,931
Deficit Spending = $8,846,911

FY2006 Approved Budget
http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/6/11/2006budget.pdf

Page 36 of the PDF. You're the mayor of record.

Revenues = $34,193,813
Expenses = $35,337,753
Deficit Spending = $1,143,940

FY2007 - Harold Logsdon is the mayor of record.

Revenues = $37,186,566
Expenses = $37,688,754
Deficit Spending = $502,188

You're correct, deficit spending continues on. Fayette County will have a surplus in FY2014 because of changes made by the County Administrator to get the budget to project more revenues than expenses.

Of course, in actual numbers, spending comes in less than projected, and revenues come in a little higher than budgeted, because that is the finance department's job. It's also the job of the folks that cut expenses day to day, and who found ways to do things without spending as much - the actual government employees.

The council in PTC seems to budget in a reduction in fund balance (deficit spending), actually as a plan, and I'm sure, when situations warrant, Fayette County will do it again too.

When you have more in expenses than you do in revenues, you DEFICIT SPEND. You did it, please admit it and move on from that platform point.

And, as always, if you didn't support the budget, and the other four council or commission members agreed to it, you'd be outvoted. You are one of five, not one of one...there you go, telling those "self-promoting inaccurate statements" again.

You're certainly running against Harold Logsdon - of course, you take no issue with constantly invoking the memory of Jack Smith, and your henchmen take pleasure in fabricating a tale out of two statements Kim Learnard made to immediately connect to the candidate. Neither of those people, to the best of my knowledge, has publicly endorsed Logsdon in any current advertising or statements released to the press. If you know of something different, please feel free to share.

And with regard to the $144 million, why don't YOU post the spreadsheet? I mean, you're running for office, not Steve Rapson. Show your work!!

upanatom
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mrobinson, this is very interesting

You have taken only three years (2005-6-7) of the 2002-2010 period during which Steve Brown and Harold Logsdon were PTC mayors. Your figures show that both individuals were involved in deficit spending during those three years. However, to get a true picture, you should also compare the other mayoral years.

Did Brown and/or Logsdon do any better in 2002-3-4-8-9-10? Since you have been consistently anti-Brown, how do we know that the figures you provided do not reflect Logsdon's smallest year of deficit spending vs. Brown's two largest years?

Further, you have provided two years for Brown, and only one for Logsdon.

You need to level the playing field.

mrobinson_ptc
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Point missed...

Upanatom - my point was proven. Steve Brown engaged in deficit spending. Playing a game of "how much total did Logsdon deficit spend" leads to nothing. Adding in Logsdon's first year as mayor was to show the difference between the end of Brown's term and the begining of Logsdon's.

How you know the figures I provided are anything - go here and read:

http://www.peachtree-city.org/DocumentCenter/Index/11

Amazingly simple.

I didn't move past the years I showed because it wasn't germane to the point I made, which is to refute the assertion and implication that only the councils during Harold Logsdon's term as mayor engaged in deficit spending. It's an attack point without merit, as councils during Brown's term did it too.

And, more to the point, neither Steve Brown nor Harold Logsdon alone are the linchpins setting the direction of any budget. And that goes right back to my main concern - it's not about "I, I, I", it's about "the County, the County, the County".

Again, the tone and temperament of the incumbent are what I call into issue. Any other "accomplishments" are either the results of others or dumb luck.

But let's play the "level playing field" game you would like. I went and looked at the other three budgets, and, yes, under the Councils where Logsdon was mayor, they had deficit spending each year:

FY 2008 - deficit spending - (1,601,301)
FY 2009 - deficit spending - (1,146,656)
FY 2010 - deficit spending - (451,181)

A shrinking amount each year....

For Brown's term 2003 - 2004 (fiscal years), the figures also show deficit spending, and you're right, they're lower in those two years, but I think you can agree that the total of Logsdon's term is less than $8 million, which was ONE year of Brown's (FY2005). Please, go find the 2003 - 2004 use of fund balance figures aka surplus carryover, as I put on Ginga's response. Good try to tag team me there.

Sometimes, you have to pull from your savings. That's the point I'm making - Brown throws out a platitude, I disprove it.

Thanks for trying...remember, I prove my points - prove yours.

ginga1414
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Good response, Mrobinson but

Prior to beginning his term as BOC Chairman, Brown stuck his neck out by promising Fayette County voters that the county would not spend more money than it took in. Here's what you said above:

"And, more to the point, neither Steve Brown nor Harold Logsdon alone are the linchpins setting the direction of any budget"

Has Harold Logsdon ever made such a promise?

Brown's promise was kept. If he were powerless to influence the direction the BOC's budget would take, why take such a political risk? Can you imagine what would have happened with Brown's naysayers if he had NOT kept his promise? Evidently, more voters are against deficit spending and consider leadership a key issue. Moreover, why was he appointed BOC Chairman for a second term by his peers if his peers did not look to him as a leader?

Brown took the Regional TSPLOST opposition reigns of not only Fayette County but the entire Atlanta metro area. I heard him speak out against the TSPLOST in a panel moderated by the editor of the Atlanta Journal, and again, in Cherokee County. Brown will stand up to defend the courage of his convictions.

You've heard the old expression "kicking the can down the road." The can stopped with Steve Brown.

G-Man
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Ginga, no clue

Ginga, you have no clue what you are talking about. You are only repeating what the underground Democratic tea party has given you. These talking points you give out are about as meaningless as Browns and your hero Obama.

Speaking of Obama this administration is looking a lot like his. Spend, spend, spend. How many times have you and the 4 other Brown groupies stated the same thing about transportation, deficit spending, etc, etc, etc. Sure the budget is being balanced but just wait.

mrobinson_ptc
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Ginga - promises, promises...you again prove my point.

First of all, way to not answer the question!

As far as promises, those are the most dangerous things candidates can do. Phil Gingrey has promised he still stop Obamacare or resign from office.

I think Brown made a promise with the knowledge there would be a sea change in the rest of the commission, so it was a "safe" promise to make. It's also vastly unrealistic. Over time, those "tough decisions" to be made in government are going to do exactly what the tea party thinks should happen...and we'll return to a cycle where, at some point, government will be forced to take from their savings.

By the way, "spending less than we take in" is another platitude. When you have a fairly substantial savings account, you can take that kind of risk. But your stormwater fees are going to go up over time, as will your property taxes...watch and see.

And the paragraph on Brown and the TSPLOST aligns well with my point that Mr. Brown is seeking something higher than just Fayette County political office.

See how well cutting taxes works when your roads take years to get repaved, your stormwater pipes are overflowing, your public safety takes longer to get to your house because automatic aid was cut.

We can go back and forth, but I'm done. You want to shift the argument, and I will simply say this - Steve Brown will tell you what you want to hear.

Professional politicans do that, especially to special interests.

mrobinson_ptc
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Question for Ginga...

With the statistics I have presented above, would you agree that Steve Brown participated in deficit spending while Mayor of Peachtree City?

mudcat
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Maddening to discuss anything with him, in't it, mrobinson?

But just take a break, relax, get a cold one and let's talk marketing.
Yes marketing.
Harold just came through the neighborhood meeting and greeting and distributing flyers. He is effectively marketing himself to the residents and voters of our district. He takes time, answers questions, does not discuss Brown (or Hadddix, but who would), he simply say he wants to be or rep on county commission. Classy, mature and non-confrontational.

I noticed how he spoke to about 3 other families in about 5 minutes and noticed him exiting our subdivision about an hour later. I estimated that he probably spoke to 35 families and left another 50 flyers behind. If he does that all day today and tomorrow, as he has done for the past 2 weekends, he would be directly reaching about 2,000 households and possibly 3,000 voters - all in his district.

Brown, Jane and his other identities and ginga are slugging it out on the Citizen website where 10 minutes ago there were 84 active users and guests out of 22,000 total users. Assuming they are all from Fayette County and equally dispersed, 1/5 or 16 people from his voting district. Assuming all are voting age and 20% turnout, he/they are slinging their crap around in front of 3 or 4 people who might vote for or against him. Sure the 84 that log on this afternoon will replace the 84 that are on there now, but the numbers just don't add up to too much at all.

Not only is his judgement bad in wasting his time and energy on a small number of people, many of whom will never change their minds one way or another about him, his message is flawed as well. And if he wastes his time on trivial vindictive debates in front of a small audience, is he then the best choice to be our representative on county commission? I think not. Of course he will be out there on the side of the road waving like a fool to people from all 5 districts and 80% of those in his district that won't vote at all and probably the 15% that plan to vote against him and when he's done doing that, Harold will have met another 500 people up close and personal.

So my point is, don't stress out, let him dig his hole deeper and wider and let him grandstand in front of a small audience while Harold is getting business done.

mrobinson_ptc
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Feeding the Bears Again

Several weeks ago, the incumbent admitted to me on this blog that his participation is simply a game to try to get elected. I'm going to continue to point out the flaws in his approach as I see them and let the incumbent and his supporters flounder - the mirror shows the flaws.

The Logsdon door-to-door strategy seems to be perfect, dead-on, small town campaigning, and hopefully it will be well received by those who actually care about local government. In the end, the battle of "hearts and minds" is really a battle of who can motivate folks to take 20-30 minutes of their lives and click a vote button. It's a mid-year election, and a primary, so low turnout is a fear.

The incumbent's true base may not be in district 3, however, so smile and wave all you want. Be prepared for district voting to be blamed for any loss, because we know how much the Fearless Leader loves to inaccurately place blame and take credit.

It's all good :)

mrobinson_ptc
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Neil - none of it is our money...

...until it's actually in the till. Until then, it's just a liability, and when there is a tax abatement in place, the liability is actually less than it might have been, but what it might have been was artifical. It's an opportunity cost, and it's all crap until the money comes in.

If taxpayers stopped paying property taxes (and some do that), "our money" would be less and we'd be trying to get money.

Development Authorities have no mandate to tell the Board of Commissioners in any special way....they did exactly what they are supposed to do, by the book. It's sad this is the primary argument for this election, as it's a bunch of inaccurate hooey. Anybody got the $144 million figure justified yet? Didn't think so...

Please, educate yourselves.

By the way, on another talking point, every government budget in Georgia is balanced every year, by state law you're not allowed to deficit budget.

https://www.audits.ga.gov/NALGAD/36812-6.html

So this crap about Harold Logsdon not balancing the budget is junk for two reasons:

1. He doesn't act unilaterally, just like the Fearless Leader;
2. The state wouldn't allow it anyway.

What did the County do, what did the Council under Logsdon do, what did the PTC Council UNDER STEVE BROWN DO? They used "excess fund balance", meaning available funds they had on hand - basically, their savings accounts.

The "four or five" Brown backers repeat the same song and dance, but they have actual little experience and exposure to how governments work. Fayette County is going to take in more than they budget to spend - let's see how close they get at the end of the year come July 1.

Steve Brown
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Neil

We made it clear in early 2013 that we wanted to be fully informed before anything was approved. We also asked that the county attorney be given copies of any deals for review before anything was approved.

Unfortunately, that did not happen. Therefore, we made changes.

mrobinson_ptc
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So you're acknowledging you kicked the FCDA board out?

And did you lead this charge? If so, "one-man wrecking crew" doesn't appear to be an inaccurate assessment!!

Baby, bathwater, good luck with that....scorched earth policies may make you feel better, but in the long term, do they really help?

NeilSullivan
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Ginga Telephone?

I may have missed it, But if the narrative is true that the commission inquired and FCDA did not respond, where are the email or letters? In traditional business if a vendor or partner doesn't return calls the paper trail begins. I really have no side in this but would like to understand it better.

upanatom
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That's a good point, Mr.Sullivan

Why don't you submit an Open Records Request to the BOC for that information?

NeilSullivan
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Up - not my usual beat

Good Afternoon:

I do think a FOIA is an excellent idea. However, my usual focus is schools and its budget season and the boy has baseball so my plate overflows. I am curious to get to the facts but I trust we already have enough good people on this one.

n

Steve Brown
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There you go again.

Nuk, you are good at being mean and trying to destroy characters, and not so good at promoting your candidate, Harold Logsdon.

I truly think the people have had their fill of your tactics. You do the most to prove your guy is not the one to elect.

You have become a good reason not to vote for the candidate you aid.

NUK_1
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Here's a real cue: they don't have to

The FCDA can give out tax abatements at will and it has nothing to do with the FC BOC. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Do some of you pay any attention or have any idea about about the laws, regulations and ordinances of where you live, not just what county, but the entire state of Georgia? No, you don't. You just take whatever your semi-professional politician like Brown says as gospel and keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

Why would anyone wanting to have development in FC approach Steve Brown for ANYTHING? This is the guy that wants only senior-housing built in PTC since in his mind seniors don't drive much and won't over-populate our school system. Of course, that was before the school system started running out of students and closing schools or his district voting diatribe against every city in FC.

It's real simple: if you love FC and want to maintain it, don't vote for someone who continuously changes his principles/ideas because he couldn't get elected otherwise. The man has ZERO principles except getting elected or re-elected, period.

johenry
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mrobinson will be accusing him of harassment soon!!

Ginga1414 that's all they can do. They love to play it both ways.

The letter to the editor says it all and there's only one thing that Kim Learnard and the four negative Logsdon bloggers can say: They don't like accountability!!! They prefer secret government in the dark.

It's guys like Steve Brown who demand accountability and they can't stand it.

And yes the appointment of Councilman Mike King is both funny and hypocritical at the same time. Shame on Kim Learnard for constantly causing trouble.

mrobinson_ptc
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I'm sure, and yet nobody substantiates $144 million...

So much emptiness....can anyone prove that the Pinewood property tax affected by the abatement would equal $144 million? PLEASE, I'm begging you!

Otherwise, it's more BS from SB and friends.

Husband and Fat...
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Mr Robinson

I remember the number but can't remember how they came up with it without the values placed by the tax commissioner.

Can anyone at the FCDA guarantee making more in sales tax?

What guarantees did these business professionals at the FCDA get from pinewood?

Nada?

But it sure looks good on their resume being part of the project.

johenry
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That's why the FCDA wouldn't give the info to the commissioners

Now you would think Husband and Father that if the FCDA had nothing to hide that they'd gladly give the information to the commissioners as they requested. Right???

mrobinson_ptc
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Thanks for helping to make my point...

No one guarantees anything, so the "budget impact" for the County is....bubkes. Estimates were provided based on past precedents of costs of movies. The proof is in the pudding.

And, let's be clear - Pinewood IS paying property taxes this year, and next year, and the year after that.

FCDA in November approved two bond resolutions that restrict the property tax liability of the film studios’ parent companies to just 5 percent of the appraised value of the property for the first year of the lease in 2014. The taxable value will escalate by 5 percent each year until the lease is fully paid off in December 2032.

So, someone tell me what the appraised value of the property is, then we can talk the actual impact. Any other number is, well, bubkes.

I gave an example using NCR and relating size on April 30....

OK, let's compare magnitude. 220 acres is about 16 times as much. NCR's Fair Market Value for their property was calculated at $4,855,580. So let's pretend that Pinewood's Fair Market value is 16 times as much - $77,689,280. If that's true, then they should pay...well...16 times what NCR paid, right? So that's....$1,075,584. In twenty years, assuming a progressively oppressive tax increase of 2 percent per year, total expected property taxes in 20 years would total $26,133,862.20

5 percent of $1,075,584 is $53,779.20. Kim Learnard mentioned another figure that I believe was in the neighborhood of $80K in year one based on what she got from FCDA. in 2013, Pinewood paid $60K in property taxes, so it's a wash when you look at the total tax taken in.

So, again, you're nowhere near $144 million. The opportunity cost in years 1-10 (again, which everyone says is common in a tax abatement) is $7,797,984 in the total of 10 years. Again, not anywhere close to $144 million in 20 years or even $70 million in 10 years.

If you believe that any government agency is budgeting for years 11-20, you are sorely mistaken.

In terms of having something "looking good on their resume", their job is to bring business into the County. Mission accomplished, good job.

johenry
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mrobinson don't be so obnoxiously ignorant!!!

You try so hard to make it look like you actually know what you are talking about and try to justify the bad deeds of your people.

Mrs. Smithfield hit the nail on the head.

"The facts are, as they have been clearly written in the local newspapers, that both the commission chairman and the county administrator told the development authority leadership on two occasions early in 2013 that the Board of Commissioners wanted to be able to review any deals related to tax abatements, so they could protect the taxpayers from any kind of harmful agreements. That’s just plain good old governance.

Regrettably, the development authority went ahead with several big deals and failed to tell the Board of Commissioners about it. That shouldn’t make the taxpayers in Fayette County feel comfortable at all.

The Board of Commissioners didn’t want to have to be babysitters, so they brought in some new personnel whom they thought would do the job and report to the county as requested. That’s called “accountability.”

Apparently, Learnard doesn’t believe the Board of Commissioners and the taxpayers are due any accountability."

The bottom line that mrobinson and the four other negative bloggers want to keep leading everyone away from is the development authority people didn't think they had to be accountable to the commissioners or the taxpayers. Shame on them!!!

Then Learnard pulls a laughable move and puts Mike King on the authority so they can have accountability!!! Hypocrites!!! Learnard is losing all her credibility.

So your choice is Brown for accountability or Logsdon for no accountability.

mrobinson_ptc
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FCDA, FCBOE and simple communication - here's how it goes...

(phone rings).
1: Fayette County Development Authority, this is BlahBlah, how may I help you?

2: Yes, this is County Administrator SoAndSo, I wanted to check and see on the MajorProjectThingy.

BlahBlah: Absolutely, I'll transfer you to our CEO, MrCEO.

MrCEO: SoAndSo, how are the kids?

SoAndSo: Great, how about your family?

MrCEO: Doing well, how can I help you?

SoAndSo: So, just wanted to check in. I know we asked you to keep us up to date on the MajorProjectThingy; anything new to report?

MrCEO: Yes, we just proposed a 20-year tax abatement. I wouldn't worry too much, as the tax revenue will go up based on sales tax and other growth.

SoAndSo: Alright, good deal. Will we see you at the farmer's market this weekend?

MrCEO: I wouldn't miss it. Talk to you soon.

SoAndSo: Thanks again, bye!

Two freaking minutes. If you don't get the information you think you should get, pick up the phone and call. Look! Problem solved.

Anything else is politics and grandstanding, as usual.

Oh, has anybody proven the 20-year tax revenue loss would be $144 million? No? Hmmmm....seems like the incumbent is all wet!

Josh Bloom
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Councilwoman Learnard missed opportunity

Mrs. Smithfield makes an excellent case that the councilwoman missed an opportunity. I respect the councilwoman, but I have to say she certainly disappointed me with her diatribe. In fact, she had a conversation with me last year that I took to heart about using inflamitory language in my writing in which I took to heart. Wish she took her own advice before calling Chairman Brown insane.

johenry
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I agree about Learnard's negativity

She seems to get enjoyment out of putting the stick in someone's eye. Mrs. Smithfield was right to point out that Learnard hadn't even bothered to contact to commissioners to get the scoop on what was actually going on before she decided to burn them at the stake in the newspapers.

The folks on the council in Peachtree City need to put the knives away and play nice for a change.

Steve Brown
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No apologies, Mrobinson

I make no apologies for my conservative political views.

You can call me a "tea party tool" all you want, but I still do not support mass transit in Fayette County, I will not deficit spend and I do not want Fayette County included in mandated regional taxation schemes that provide us little or no benefit.

Anyone who disagrees, can vote for your guy Harold Logsdon, no hard feelings.

mrobinson_ptc
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Mass Transit, Deficit Spending, Regional Goodness

First of all, there's no need to apologize. The magic that makes our government work is we have different opinions and positions. I don't have to agree with yours, you don't have to agree with mine. As I've stated often, it's not necessarily the platform I have issue with - it's the approach. The tea party, at least nationally, has many ideas that have merit (just like the, gulp, DEMOCRATS and the other Republicans and the Libertarians and the Independents). It falls apart with the approach, and I am suspect of your long term political motives.

Being a good citizen, in my mind, means you understand and appreciate many differing views and work to compromise for the best of the whole. Sadly, that's not the ethos of the current climate. I miss the gold ol' days of compromise and moderate thinking.

Now, back to some issue-related questions:

Mass Transit - you won't even consider ideas like the commuter "church bus" concept I put out? No government money ever to move groups of people in a vehicle from one place to another in or out of the County? Same question goes out to Logsdon and Haddix. I had a conversation with Haddix, and I understand his position. I believe it is somewhat in line with what I'm proposing here. There is a demand for commuting opportunities that should be considered, in my opinion.

Deficit Spending - what happens if the economy tanks again? You did it before, and I proved it. What's to say you won't do it again if needed? Again, holding too tight to your ideals will get you caught up when circumstances change.

Regional Taxation without benefit - benefit is subjective. Define what you mean by that. What regionally mandated taxation scheme would you support? Do you honestly believe the bubble of Fayette County is truly autonomous and independent - I believe Mother Nature reminded us of that earlier this year.

So....batter up - talk about these issues there!

G35 Dude
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mrobinson, My take on your questions.

Mr Brown can answer for himself but here is my take on your incessant whining/questioning. Officials are elected to represent the views of the people that they serve.

The people of Fayette have made it clear that they do not want Mass Transit. Not even your little free ride that you seem to feel that we should pay for so that you can pocket money saved. Pay for your own way to work. I do.

Deficit Spending, you remind me of a little child that just keeps saying, Well what if? Any adult knows that some times circumstances will dictate a change in direction. A man that would not commit a crime might if someone has his child and is threatening harm to said child if he doesn't.

Regional Taxation, well refer to my comments on Mass Transit.

But feel free to move to any location that you feel is better.

mrobinson_ptc
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You guys get a lot of mileage out of two Learnard quotes...

manufacturing a whole network of stories and conspiracy theories and what some might call outright lies....well done! The "positive bloggers" have a future in alternative history storytelling!

"Remember when Steve Brown was a county commissioner? Yeah, it's a shame he couldn't get a 2nd term. He really helped us poor tea party folks!"

The thing about Brown: He may be right sometimes, but he's most often a tea party tool.

By the way, Harold Logsdon's issues are pretty much the same issues Steve Brown has (even by Brown's admission here on the blogs), so I'll take the odds on a quiet professional leader in this one.

maxmudman
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Reply to Peachtree City council bitterness

While Kim Learnard focuses on the negative and continues to make vitriolic comments about Steve Brown, he does not respond in kind. Instead he focuses on the positive. He has made great strides in developing a county commission that listens to its citizens and works with all the other governmental agencies in the county, to include city councils, mayors, and school boards. In this spirit of communication, it seems pretty reasonable and desirable to want to stay informed on the plans the FCDA would implement, especially regarding tax abatements affecting the citizens of the county. I applaud The current county chairman and commissioner's involvement and oversight. It seems to be exactly what the citizens of Fayette County need and deserve.

upanatom
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I also welcome you Maxmudman

While the middle part of your name resembles an unconvertible Brown basher, that's just an ironic coincidence. It's apparent that Brown is winning big-time, and his supporters are coming out of the woodwork in droves. People get tired of the stale anti-Brown comments, and it's indeed refreshing to see a new perspective once in a while.

I used to work for a big company, and the GM told me that the way you get promoted is by doing your job better than it's ever been done before. Brown has been working hard ever since he has taken office, and he is getting support from all over Fayette County in recognition of all his hard work.

Yet, the same few who just don't like Brown no matter what will still be grasping at straws to discredit him throughout the election. Tenacity and perseverance they have. The best qualified candidate for BOC they haven't.

mudcat
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Welcome max/Steve

Look, another newbie joined us Sunday 5/11 just in time to defend Steve Brown the week before the election.

johenry
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Now I could not agree more!!! Stop the histrionics!

It's my new favorite word "histrionics". I looked it up in the dictionary and there was Councilwoman Learnard's picture next to the definition.